Gibson F9 and Weber Bitterroot F-5

[lflngpicker]

I appreciate hearing about your Weber, nickster60! It sounds like a great mandolin! Thanks.

[itstooloudMike]

I owned a Bitteroot-F for several years, and loved the way it played. But it had a mahogany back, and never sounded like I wanted. I have played a few F-9s, and while they didn't play as well as my Weber, I really liked the way they sounded. After selling the Bitteroot-F, I had hoped to find a good deal on an F-9. Before one caught my eye, I happened across a good deal on a Bitteroot-A with a maple back. After playing the Bitteroot-A, I just had to have it. It played as well as the Bitteroot-F I had owned, but it sounded much more alive. I doubt I will ever let my Bitteroot-A go. It's an awesome mandolin. I may still end up getting an F-9 one day, if a good deal comes along. But I no longer feel I "need" another mandolin. Webers are great mandolins, built extremely well. But for me, I prefer the sound of a maple back and a satin finish. It's got an earthy bark that just sounds great. Woody and warm, with lots of complexity.

[Luna Pick]

Just a thought about another option if it could work for you, hop a cheap flight out of Ontario to the Bay Area and check out Gryphon and Sylvan Music, or a flight to Phoenix for the Mandolin Store. A long day at either place would get you in front of a lot of mandolins.

[Dan Co1e]

I have owned a Gibson made Flatiron F and a custom maple fernburst Weber Bitteroot F. I think the Bitteroot has a more modern mandolin sound that seems to work well with all types of music where the Gibson products seem to stay true to their bluegrass roots. I also prefer the wider nut and radius of the fingerboard on the Weber.

BTW, I sold the Flatiron and still have the Bitteroot..

[darylcrisp]

Dan
one other thing you might consider regarding Northfields-if you can find some earlier versions, and I see one every now and then pop up, I think a bunch of them came out with flat fretboards and smaller(what used to be standard mando frets) frets, where as now most arrive with what they call the "modern setup"(larger frets, radius FB). those were early models and didn't have top binding, setups were still top shelf. keep check on Elderlys as they pass thru there sometimes.

another option, and I've played two from this builder that were very nice sounding and high quality builds-Summit. Paul(used to work at Gibson) builds a nice flat FB and will use skinny frets if you like. His necks to me are most close to Weber and very comfortable. check the classifieds, there have been some really sharp Summit F's for sale in the past month or two. prices are reasonable as well. the Lafferty F models are built by Paul(Summit) for TheMandolinStore and offer a lot of bang for the buck. real nice feeling, playing mandolins. lots of videos of those at TMS.

still, in the end, if you like the Weber tone a BitterRoot is hard to beat. Like others mentioned, that satin finish enhances the feel, look, tone, imo-its all personal. Check "Trinity Guitars", they used to stock some Webers and Jim(owner) builds high end classical instruments, he knows good tone. Real nice folks there as well.

d

[DataNick]

...I think the Bitteroot has a more modern mandolin sound that seems to work well with all types of music where the Gibson products seem to stay true to their bluegrass roots...

Don't mean to nit-pick ya Dan but when Lloyd Loar, McHugh et al produced the F5, there was no bluegrass. The F5 design features that were revolutionary for the time were made primarily for classical music; exhibit Chris Thile playing Bach on his Loar.
But I agree in principle with your view...

[nickster60]

There is also the legendary Weber customer service to add to the equation.

[Dan Co1e]

Don't mean to nit-pick ya Dan but when Lloyd Loar, McHugh et al produced the F5, there was no bluegrass. The F5 design features that were revolutionary for the time were made primarily for classical music; exhibit Chris Thile playing Bach on his Loar.
But I agree in principle with your view...

Made me laugh a little thinking about saying "Gibson, staying true to their classical roots"!

[darylcrisp]

i just noticed the price on this:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/89533

nice looking mando and excellent price for new.
this would be hard to pass up..............just saying

d

[J Mangio]

New mando,, or new price ?

[lflngpicker]

Just a thought about another option if it could work for you, hop a cheap flight out of Ontario to the Bay Area and check out Gryphon and Sylvan Music, or a flight to Phoenix for the Mandolin Store. A long day at either place would get you in front of a lot of mandolins.

Not a bad suggestion. I can't drive anymore due to Parkinson's, so I need a ride. I would love to get in front of a bunch of great mandolins! A dream vacation, to my way of thinking. Thanks Luna.

[lflngpicker]

Hi Daryl, I was very impressed by that. A Gallatin F5 is available for a similar price. I assume the Bitterroot is typically a higher sticker price? Dan B

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New mando,, or new price ?

I believe it was listed as new. I'll check. ----- I checked and I'm back. Emory told me it is new.

[J Mangio]

Nice!

[darylcrisp]

Hi Daryl, I was very impressed by that. A Gallatin F5 is available for a similar price. I assume the Bitterroot is typically a higher sticker price? Dan B
- - - Updated - - -



I believe it was listed as new. I'll check. ----- I checked and I'm back. Emory told me it is new.

BitterRoot is more expensive. That one has a couple custom extras from what i can tell, the color for one, appears to have a gloss top, not sure if binding is only on the top or top and bottom. thats a real sharp mandolin. oh yea, adi on top. Webers sound real nice with Adi tops-not sure if thats an upcharge or not.

wish i could swing by and play that this weekend and report back to you, the shop is around 1.5 hours away and we have a packed out weekend.

d

[Charles E.]

New mando,, or new price ?

New price. That mandolin came on my radar when I was in the market back in April. It was well over 3K then.

[lflngpicker]

Is there more than one version of the F9? I have seen the street price for new ones and it is $4700 and up. Are the used ones I see for $2400 a different animal? Confused.

[darylcrisp]

Is there more than one version of the F9? I have seen the street price for new ones and it is $4700 and up. Are the used ones I see for $2400 a different animal? Confused.

i think Gibson had a price increase in 2015-i noticed zzzounds emails showing the F9 into the upper 4 ranges now as of late. i can't remember what they were selling for a year ago, but i'm thinking they were in the mid/upper 3's.

the Gibson folks can fill you in more detail, i don't know that product line well.

a shop in Sevierville, Tn used to carry a couple Gibsons- MusicOutlet, might give'm a call. they don't typically deal on price much at all, what they say they stick with. they used to always have a couple Webers in stock as well.

d

[Mandoplumb]

Don't mean to nit-pick ya Dan but when Lloyd Loar, McHugh et al produced the F5, there was no bluegrass. The F5 design features that were revolutionary for the time were made primarily for classical music; exhibit Chris Thile playing Bach on his Loar.
But I agree in principle with your view...

Don't know that I even agree in principle. I read where people say this mandolin works for bluegrass this for Celtic this for old time etc. and all they are really saying is " this is the sound I prefer for that music". All mandolin players with Jimmy Martin played his F4 because that was the sound Martin wanted and he was the King of Bluegrass. I also think that the father of BG recorded a couple songs with an oval hole and no one can say Red Rector wasn't BG, yet these mandolins weren't "BG instruments." Any good mandolin can play any music and each will have a following that likes that sound.

[Bernie Daniel]

Don't know that I even agree in principle. I read where people say this mandolin works for bluegrass this for Celtic this for old time etc. and all they are really saying is " this is the sound I prefer for that music". All mandolin players with Jimmy Martin played his F4 because that was the sound Martin wanted and he was the King of Bluegrass. I also think that the father of BG recorded a couple songs with an oval hole and no one can say Red Rector wasn't BG, yet these mandolins weren't "BG instruments." Any good mandolin can play any music and each will have a following that likes that sound.

But 99.9% of professional bluegrass players use a copy of a Loar-signed Gibson or else they actually use a Loar, 85% of Celtic players use an oval hole -flat back mandolin and 77% of all classical players use a bowl back mandolin

Of course I just made all of that up -- but its probably not so far from true nonetheless.

[David Lewis]

But 99.9% of professional bluegrass players use a copy of a Loar-signed Gibson or else they actually use a Loar, 85% of Celtic players use an oval hole -flat back mandolin and 77% of all classical players use a bowl back mandolin Of course I just made all of that up -- but its probably not so far from true nonetheless.

62% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

My epiphone mm50 has a great tone. It's light, carved and well I like it. Just saying.

[DataNick]

Well Bernie is a long time scientist who understands the old axiom that you can "torture the data to make it confess to whatever you want it to"...LOL!....although I wager he's probably within 5 percentage points of his bluegrass pickers assertion...

[lflngpicker]

Concerning my earlier posting: Is the dovetail neck joint compared to the mortise and tenon an important area of contrast? I am a bit old school, so maybe I shouldn't be worried about his difference? Collings MT, Pava, Weber Bitterroot and Gibson F-9 are in sights for serious consideration. I believe Collings has the mortise and tenon, while the other three have the dovetail?

[DataNick]

Collings, Ellis/Pava, and Weber use the mortise-tenon, though Bruce Weber says his is more like a dovetail I think.

Gibson uses the dove-tail. Some swear by the differences they can hear, I confess I can't. My hoss of an F5L that Adam Steffey just played last Sat and said is a "really, really good mandolin" is a Bozeman Gibson made with the mortise-tenon. My F9 & Flatiron Performer A are dovetail; and they all sound different!

I give up trying to figure out that one.... btw I sent you a message re: an F9 in the Classifieds...

[lflngpicker]

Thanks Nick! Interesting. I sold a Taylor with a the Mortise Tenon, and it was a great guitar. I think that the dovetail was appealing to me in choosing my first USA made mandolin. By the way, Nick knows, but to all else, I have purchased a Gibson F-9 and got a really great deal on a minty used one in the Classifieds. I appreciate all the help and explanations, suggestions, encouragement, etc.

[Charles E.]

Have fun with your F-9! Post pic's and sound clips (if you are so inclined) when you get it.

I see that someone snatched up the custom Bitterroot at Capo's too.

Happy picking y'all!