Next mandolin: high end import or low end domestic

[Plunker]

A while back forum folks were helpful when I found a Kentucky 254. I ended up buying a KM270 which has a very nice fat tone - particularly when I use a proplec. I guess I've caught MAS because I'm thinking about a second mandolin - maybe a step up. From what I have played, I think I like the Kentucky sound better than the Eastman (the two budget instruments in my area).

The Kentucky KM950 looks sweet - ebony, radiused fingerboard with guitar-like frets. I play the steel string guitar, so that's familiar. Good reviews. Since this would be mail order, I wonder what I might expect in comparison to my KM270? There is also the KM505, but I don't think it has the fat frets.

On the domestic side, the M model on the Northfield web site looks interesting. More money than the KM950, and a stretch financially, but similar ergonomic features. Would it be 50% better than the KM950? Limited reviews on this model.

[JeffD]

I don't think Northfields are domestic (to the USA). Please correct me if I am wrong. I thought they were made in China, in Qingdao. Maybe only certain models or maybe only certain procedures.

Someone who knows will chime in here.

[JEStanek]

Northfields are made over seas and finished over in the US. I wouldn't let that deter you, they get great reviews. I will offer this as another option if purchasing domestically is important. For similar price for the Northfield M, new, $1800 you can get a used Collings MT, a variety of used Webers, even (if you can find one) a used Old Wave. There are other builders in that price range as well.

Jamie

[Plunker]

Thanks for the quick replies!

JeffD - I think the new "M" model is made entirely in the U.S. But, country of origin is not an issue for me, just a detail.

Jamie - Thanks. I can't say that I am fond of the sound of Collings guitars or mandolins. There is a store not too far that has a regular inventory and, honestly, I like the tone of the KM270 over the Collings that shows up at a local jam session. Never seen a Weber or Old Wave

[itstooloudMike]

Walter at June Mandolins (Campobello, South Carolina) has got a recently completed A-style that he is asking $1350 for, and his work is highly regarded here on the Cafe. I doubt you could find a better, hand made mandolin for that kind of money. If I didn't already have a sweet Weber Bitteroot-A, I would have snapped up this June A-5. Walter does beautiful work.

[JeffD]

. Never seen a Weber or Old Wave

Oh you should. They are among the best sounding and playing instruments available. I have only played a few Old Waves, but I was very impressed. I have played many a Weber, own a few, and again, always very impressive. Great folks to deal with too BTW.

Northfields get a lot of good reviews, folks are really happy with them. I tried one and I loved it.


There is a lot of great stuff out there at that price point, especially on the secondary market, that could make you happy for ever.

[darrylicshon]

So you own a oval hole and want an F hole which F holes do not sound like ovals. I saw a nice oval weber sale in your range last week, which i wanted cause i have a cheaper 80's oval hole that sounds great, just not very loud

[Hadji36]

+1 on June Mandolins.

Walter Johnson is a great guy. Give him a call and let him know what you are looking for...

He's very pleasant, knowledgeable and makes a very nice mandolin...NFI

[Chootum]

Northfields are amazing. I would put my F5s against any Collings any day.
Super balanced, loud and very round modern sound. Excellent playability. The finish maybe 7/10. But the sound is on par with any high end mandolin.

[sunburst]

A high end import can cost over $20,000. For much less than half of that amount you can have you choice of high end domestic mandolins.

[peter.coombe]

A high end import can cost over $20,000

.

Not from me! I wish. If a Gilchrist then yes?

[OldGus]

From what I've heard the Northfield isn't necessarily an upgrade from the Kentucky.

[Plunker]

Thanks again for th replies. I guess high and low end is relative. I'm sure that my playing would not highlight the value of an instrument costing more than my car.

It's amazing how fast the conversation went from talking about $1k mandolins to $20k mandolins!

[Chootum]

From what I've heard the Northfield isn't necessarily an upgrade from the Kentucky.

Believe me it is. I own both Collings and Northfield. And the Northfield is a better instrument in every aspect except finish.

[Seattle]

I know this must have been asked before (but I haven't seen it)...what is the difference in sound between a decent low end mandolin and a much higher end mandolin?

Is it mostly about things other than sound such as looks, how it feels in the hand, etc?

I have several guitars (by way of comparison) and I have owned ones costing much more than what I currently own. As long as you aren't buying a real piece of crap and as long as it's set up properly I don't really hear a lot of difference as the price of a guitar starts to go way up.

I'm guessing it's the same with mandolins but I don't know for sure as I just bought my first mandolin (KM-150).

If the strings are the same and the set-up is the same and both models are solid wood...how many (important) variables are there? I'm guessing not many.

With the few comparisions I've been able to find on YouTube the sound seems fairly similar to me.

[OldGus]

Believe me it is. I own both Collings and Northfield. And the Northfield is a better instrument in every aspect except finish.

I said the Kentucky. I believe it was 'Almeria Strings' that wrote about it and he has both types (2 KM-1000's, not a KM-950) but I would imagine comparisons would vary some anyways. I haven't personally played a Northfield though...

[almeriastrings]

I said the Kentucky. I believe it was 'Almeria Strings' that wrote about it and he has both types (2 KM-1000's, not a KM-950) but I would imagine comparisons would vary some anyways. I haven't personally played a Northfield though...

Yes, I did have two very fine KM-1000's at one time, and I have played a KM-900 too. They are very good mandolins and given the price, excellent value. The Northfield is definitely a big step up, however, in my opinion. You can put that up against many 8K+ instruments and it is not outclassed. The one I have is a "Big Mon' and it is a really great instrument. You really need to try them both if possible.

[Chootum]

I know this must have been asked before (but I haven't seen it)...what is the difference in sound between a decent low end mandolin and a much higher end mandolin?

Is it mostly about things other than sound such as looks, how it feels in the hand, etc?

I have several guitars (by way of comparison) and I have owned ones costing much more than what I currently own. As long as you aren't buying a real piece of crap and as long as it's set up properly I don't really hear a lot of difference as the price of a guitar starts to go way up.

I'm guessing it's the same with mandolins but I don't know for sure as I just bought my first mandolin (KM-150).

If the strings are the same and the set-up is the same and both models are solid wood...how many (important) variables are there? I'm guessing not many.

With the few comparisions I've been able to find on YouTube the sound seems fairly similar to me.

A mandolin has a very specific geometry required for sound generation. The shapeof the top and the bottom, as well as the materials used have a huge effect on quality of sound and volume. Flat top instruments are not so dependent on these factors. Think of the mandolin more as a violin than a guitar. In mandolins and violins, the most miniscule change in top or bottom thickness can make considerable difference in tone. It is a very fragile and susceptible balance in the geometry of the instrument. High quality instruments have a cleaner tone, they are louder, they are more balanced in tone (bottom mid and top), have a superior playability, and have a more colorful voice, among other factors. Just listen to John Reischman's Loar and compare to what a Kentucky, or Johnson, or Eastman sounds like. Good things cost money, and they are worth every penny.

[almeriastrings]

I know this must have been asked before (but I haven't seen it)...what is the difference in sound between a decent low end mandolin and a much higher end mandolin?

The only way to know that is to go somewhere where you can play a lot of mandolins... it is also important to note that even "high end" instruments can sound quite different from each other. This is where 'mandolin tastings' are useful.

You do get high class construction, gorgeous woods and a top class finish, but the main thing is the sound, and yes... you really can hear it. One area it stands out is in the incredible "carrying power" or "room filling" capability of a truly fine instrument. That's something you just don't get at all towards the bottom of the ladder, and you only begin to get it as you move quite a way up. The very best mandolins "just keep on giving" no matter how hard you drive them, too. No breakup or "harshness".

[Ivan Kelsall]

Almeria is correct - you need to play quite a few mandolins of as many brands & styles as you can.That way you have a 'hands on' experience to feel / hear how they play & to see if they're comfortable for you regarding fret size, neck shape etc. Only then can you make your own informed choice. Other Cafe members can only give their opinions & advice,& as good & as well informed as that might be,if a recommended mandolin doesn't suit you......................!,
Ivan

[Willie Poole]

A big nod of the head as to what Ivan said..a lot of people on here will like a different sound in a mandolin so in my opinion if you listen to ALL of them you will just get confused, Play as many as you can and when the right one comes along it will "speak" to you, that is what causes MAS and we all get it sooner or later...Just to prove my point I see all of the good things said on here about Weber and Eastman mandolins and I have played quite a few of each and have never played one that suits my taste but that just shows what different people look for in a mandolin sound...Lots of luck in your testing, it will take a while for you to try them all and also some mandolins made by the same maker will sound different some of the time...

Willie

[Mandoplumb]

Willie glad to hear what you said about webbers and eastmans. I thought something was wrong with me and my ears because I feel the same way. I was going to tell Seattle that if he couldn't hear the difference go with the cheaper one but thought that sounded sort of smart alect, you said the same thing with more tact.

[dwc]

+1 on June Mandolins.

Walter Johnson is a great guy. Give him a call and let him know what you are looking for...

He's very pleasant, knowledgeable and makes a very nice mandolin...NFI

+2 on Walter's "June" mandolins. What you have here is a classic false dichotomy. You can get a handmade American mandolin that sounds great for under $2000. I have June #57 and it is a great mandolin.

I am also not a huge fan of the Colling's tone (no disrespect meant to Colling's, they build great mandolins, just not my cup of tea tonally).

My June is the antithesis of a Colling's. The June is X braced and has an Engelmann spruce top. It has great lows and a chop that can go from bark to crack. But the thing I like best is that the tone stays strong and clear all the way up the neck without ever getting piercing or shrill, which to my ears is my main complaint with the Collings' I have played and heard.

[lflngpicker]

+2 on Walter's "June" mandolins. What you have here is a classic false dichotomy. You can get a handmade American mandolin that sounds great for under $2000. I have June #57 and it is a great mandolin.

I am also not a huge fan of the Colling's tone (no disrespect meant to Colling's, they build great mandolins, just not my cup of tea tonally).

My June is the antithesis of a Colling's. The June is X braced and has an Engelmann spruce top. It has great lows and a chop that can go from bark to crack. But the thing I like best is that the tone stays strong and clear all the way up the neck without ever getting piercing or shrill, which to my ears is my main complaint with the Collings' I have played and heard.

Thanks for that analysis. Good to be able to read a different view and gain some insight. I too am on a similar hunt .

[MysTiK PiKn]

Illusions. You might find "the one". Walk away. Play some others. Go back. If it still makes you cry, buy it.

I did this. I was ready to trade the farm. On return, it sucked. I still don't know what happened. I wanted to trade - but the 'manager' was out - lucky for me.

I have had similar experiences elsewhere. A lot (subjective) depends on how you feel, what the trial room is like, and what else you can compare it to. It's kinda like you have to believe your ears - but you may be listening with your feet. I know; that's really crazed. A friend with you can play while you listen. Also have a known instrument with you, to compare directly.!!

But once you have heard really good; you can't forget that. Did that too. It was what I knew a mandolin COULD sound like. I just didn't have 9k for that - and I doubt I ever will. Lottery, sure, no problem.

Apitius !! side by side w a gib at elderly, few years ago. It's gone. The memory remains as a pleasant experience. If you know good sound, if that has touched you, it isn't about brand. Cheap can sound good; but side by side w quality .... be careful, either way. An emotional decision needs to be honest - this is not easy to describe, sorry. Little voice yelling at you - I dunno. The decision is all yours. Walk away. You either know, or you don't.