Bach To Bach...

[David Lewis]

Why so many of the big names (and even some of hte smaller names) do Bach? Marshall (ok, he's with his wife, but ...), Thile, Biesterfeldt...

All are excellent, don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining, nor criticising. I'm just wondering why the trend for J S? (Apart from that it's supreme music, which may well be reason enough)...

Or is it that I think too much about too little?

[Paul Busman]

Supreme music for sure, and for me that's enough reason.
The music that these pros are recording was mostly written for violin which is pitched and tuned like a mandolin, so it seems like a natural transition. In the Baroque, musicians frequently "stole" music written for other instruments so there's a historical precedent for it.
The Partitas showcase the full range of what a violin is capable of, from blazingly fast passages, to slow emotional ones so they let a musician develop a full musical vocabulary. I hope more mandolinists take up the challenge!

[Gary Ivory]

Furthermore, as Chris Thile points out in a video somewhere, it's way easier to play triple- and quadruple-
stops on a mandolin than on a violin.

[fatt-dad]

I think the 15 Bach Inventions were made for solo piano. Practice music. In the mandolin world, they make great duets. I'm learning them (slowly) doing the piano's right hand work and my duet partner is doing the left hand on guitar. They are a great workout! And very challenging!

f-d

[DavidKOS]

I think the 15 Bach Inventions were made for solo piano. Practice music.
f-d

Actually, although these pieces were for developing technical skills or performance and composition, their musical value is far beyond mere "practice music".

Not to be picky, but the piano was barely invented in Bach's time, not yet perfected, and almost all of Bach's keyboard music was intended for the clavichord, harpsichord, or organ. Not piano.....but of course Bach is most often played on the common keyboard of our day, the piano.


Why do many musicians play Bach? Because it's some of the most sublime, well written and musical repertoire we have in the Western tradition.

[Petrus]

Heck yeah ... Bach's Minuet in G is one of the first pieces I learned for mando.

[Jeff Mando]

Hate to be a "redneck" but...

I don't get modern players wanting to do Bach or Classical, in general, on the mandolin. That's just me. Give me some Jim & Jesse, anytime....

Do you think Bill Monroe sat on the edge of his bed at night and said, "sure, I've done pretty well, but there must be something more out there....?"

Actually, as an artist, he probably did ask himself these questions to improve his playing, technique, subject matter, etc....but I don't know if changing genre is the answer....IMHO

[objectsession]

Do you think Bill Monroe sat on the edge of his bed at night and said, "sure, I've done pretty well, but there must be something more out there....?"

Actually, as an artist, he probably did ask himself these questions to improve his playing, technique, subject matter, etc....but I don't know if changing genre is the answer....IMHO

That's sounds like such an odd thing to say about Monroe. I can imagine he did think about there being more out there, and then he created it. And I don't think he could be classified as someone that stuck with the old genre.

It sounds like you are reacting to the notion that classical music is "better" music and are assuming that that's why players choose to expand to that genre. I don't get that impression from Thile or Marshall when I hear them talk. It's just one thing they do because it interests them.

[CES]

I remember Thile stating in an interview that Bach hits a sweet spot for him among the classical greats (composers). It's beautiful, amazingly written, and challenging but accessible. He commented that Beethoven seemed to, at times, almost be battling the musicians playing his compositions, and that some of his pieces just aren't accessible for stringed instruments. He has also stated on a couple of occasions that, though the Punch Brothers get hailed for pushing boundaries, Bach has already done it all musically. I think Thile, Marshall, etc, just find it challenging and impressive to play.

Apologies if I'm misremembering. Jeff, I'm not schooled at all in classical music, and I can't listen to it all day like I can Bluegrass, Newgrass, etc, but there's some really amazing stuff in that genre that'll make you want to cheer just like you would for Rawhide. I'm just dipping into a Bach for Mando book, and it's challenging, amazing music, and the work improves my playing otherwise. As always, though, personal preference is just that, and adds variety to these discussions. For the record, I can't ever see me eschewing all genres to pursue classical music exclusively (after all, a partita isn't going to get my redneck crowd singing at the lake like Sweet Home Alabama), but it's a fun change of pace...

[Jackgaryk]

Jeff..there are worse things than being a "Redneck".

[tkdboyd]

Playing and recording Bach pieces on a mandolin isn't anything really new. Mike Marshall recorded a fantastic version of Partita #3 over two decades ago. Giuseppe Anedda did it 50 years or so ago, and I am sure there are numerous European mandolin masters have recorded and played it for the last 50+ years.

I enjoy it immensely, but I also like Vivaldi, Beethoven, Calace, etc...

[JeffD]

I don't get modern players wanting to do Bach or Classical, in general, on the mandolin. ...
Do you think Bill Monroe sat on the edge of his bed at night and said, "sure, I've done pretty well, but there must be something more out there....?"

Actually, as an artist, he probably did ask himself these questions to improve his playing, technique, subject matter, etc....but I don't know if changing genre is the answer....IMHO

I think you are overlooking another possibility. That folks might pursue playing Bach, not to improve technique or expand repertory, they might in fact be pursuing Bach because they always wanted to play Bach.

I think I have wanted to play Bach on mandolin as much as I ever wanted to play anything else on the mandolin, including bluegrass and traditional fiddle tunes, and for the same reason, for the joy in playing the music.

[Maczart]

Bach opened up my ears to an entire world of music I had previously never known. I was just your typical garage-band guitar playing kid when I came across a Julian Bream (classical guitarist) recording of Bach pieces while flipping through my friend's record collection. I asked him about it and he said it belonged to his dad but I should hear it because "the dude was pretty good".

My mind was completely blown after hearing his interpretation of the Chaconne from the Partita in D minor for solo violin. I just couldn't believe that all that music was coming from a single guitar played by one person without any electronic wizardry or enhancement. (My initial impression was confirmed a few years later when I saw him perform this piece live in concert). Within a month, I bought a classical guitar and began taking lessons. At first, I was mostly taken by the level of technical ability required to play Bach's music but the more I learned the more impressed I became with genius of his music. I began to hear his influence in other styles of music. It was a gateway to appreciating other composers and the greater world of classical music in general.

Now, forty years later, even though I've dabbled in other musical genres and with other instruments, I 'll always have a spot in my heart for Bach and the musical journey he inspired within me. Different people have different ideas of what appeals to them and what constitutes 'good music'. Many people associate music with a having good time... dancing, singing, etc. and that's certainly fine. But when you are listening to music for the appreciation of the music itself, for me it's hard to beat Bach for reasons too lengthy to get into in a simple post. One of the beautiful things about Bach's music is how adaptable it is to different instruments. It's hard to imagine any Beethoven or Mozart played on an instrument for which it wasn't composed.

[catmandu2]

... I came across a Julian Bream ...

I had an epiphany in my early 20s when I heard a friend's tape cassette of the John Williams cello suites: I was immediately smitten/obsessed and began transcribing them - until eventually finding the scores - and spending the subsequent 20+ years devoted to these more than any other. I had studied classical guitar for years prior, but I wasn't captivated by the repertoire until Bach - which inspired me tremendously for the instrument.

Bach provides - particularly for the solo instrumentalist - an oeuvre that's hard to beat. I now dabble with the cello suites on double bass ...

[JEStanek]

Bach is familiar. From movies, commercials, TV, high school orchestra. So, it's more approachable for a wider audience. Bach is very commercially viable and it sounds good in a mandolin context. Marshall and the Modern Mandolin Quartet have also done the Nutcracker Suite (1990ish). I enjoy a broad range, I guess.

Jamie.

[zedmando]

Supreme music for sure, and for me that's enough reason.
The music that these pros are recording was mostly written for violin which is pitched and tuned like a mandolin, so it seems like a natural transition. In the Baroque, musicians frequently "stole" music written for other instruments so there's a historical precedent for it.
The Partitas showcase the full range of what a violin is capable of, from blazingly fast passages, to slow emotional ones so they let a musician develop a full musical vocabulary. I hope more mandolinists take up the challenge!

Exactly--and put so much more clearly than I could have.

Plus Bach is cool.

[avaldes]

I am going to order the Mike/Caterina book. Meanwhile, from about a year back to Bach:

[Petrus]

I remember Thile stating in an interview that Bach hits a sweet spot for him among the classical greats (composers). It's beautiful, amazingly written, and challenging but accessible. He commented that Beethoven seemed to, at times, almost be battling the musicians playing his compositions, and that some of his pieces just aren't accessible for stringed instruments.

I find Bach and baroque music in general more interesting than a lot of stuff that came later on. Beethoven's motifs can be quite tedious and overly insistent in comparison. His famous Fifth Symphony is not difficult or inaccessible -- in fact it's probably the most familiar motif in classical music to this day -- but the basic kernal is just four notes:



It's just three notes and then a final one a third lower (FFFD, etc.), played every which way in different registers and all sorts of variations. It gets boring after a few iterations.

The Ninth's motif (the fourth movement, Ode to Joy) is a little more interesting and not hard to play on the mandolin at all but also not as interesting musically as Bach.

[Paul Busman]

Hate to be a "redneck" but...

Do you think Bill Monroe sat on the edge of his bed at night and said, "sure, I've done pretty well, but there must be something more out there....?"

I think that there are some of us who don't really care much what Bill would have thought. There's a whole world of music out there beyond Bluegrass (as terrific as Bluegrass is).
As far as idle speculation goes, I wonder what Bach would have thought of Chris Thile's playing of his music. I also wonder what he would have made of Bluegrass...

[fatt-dad]

Actually, although these pieces were for developing technical skills or performance and composition, their musical value is far beyond mere "practice music".

Not to be picky, but the piano was barely invented in Bach's time, not yet perfected, and almost all of Bach's keyboard music was intended for the clavichord, harpsichord, or organ. Not piano.....but of course Bach is most often played on the common keyboard of our day, the piano.


Why do many musicians play Bach? Because it's some of the most sublime, well written and musical repertoire we have in the Western tradition.

oops, I meant to type, "keyboard."

f-d

[Randi Gormley]

I don't think great musicians -- great artists of any type, actually -- limit themselves to one thing. They may take years to explore something, but most of them move around a bit at some point. Rock and rollers play with bluegrass or classical, bluegrass guys and gals play around with jazz, ITM types wander into choro, classical players try their hand at rock and roll -- the real artist likes a challenge and same ol' same ol', no matter how great they are at it, can tend to get a little stale. So they branch out. If Bill Monroe didn't like to experiment, from what I gather of the stuff I've read here (I've actually almost no personal knowledge of BM's work -- not my genre), bluegrass wouldn't have been born.

And then there's the fact that some people simply like classical music for its own sake. Like some people read classical novels even though they have the option of reading some fine contemporary stuff.

[JeffD]

I don't think great musicians -- great artists of any type, actually -- limit themselves to one thing.

I agree, but I don't think musicians go about exploring for the purposes of acquiring greatness. I just think one of the things that separates great musicians from others is that natural inquisitiveness and willingness to explore and bend or break boundaries.

And then there's the fact that some people simply like classical music for its own sake. Like some people read classical novels even though they have the option of reading some fine contemporary stuff.

Or the paintings of the old masters.

I suspect that this is the case most of the time. In the arts, many just let joy be their guide.

[Bertram Henze]

Baroque music is the last great challenge to mankind - after exploring the depth of the oceans and landing on the moon, there is still the everlasting enigma of the X sonata in the key of Y. And it is especially tantalizing, since Baroque lends itself so easily to be played on almost any instrument (unlike later musical eras that more and more heavily depended on proper instruments). It's like you could drive your bicycle to Mars if it weren't for the distance.

The few instances I have tried to do Baroque (two, to be precise, not counting O'Carolan pieces) were totally driven by the urge to prove to myself I could do it, that I wasn't a lesser musician than those classically trained orchestra people, and that classical eras are just other genres, not some distant Valhalla where they are born in frock coats.

Everybody should try this just once and find out that the way is not further than a quick walk down to the chemist.

[Brandon Flynn]

If I read your question right, a lot of what you are asking is "why Bach in particular?" as opposed to other composers. As others have said, Baroque music in general lends itself to be played by other instruments than the pieces were originally written for than later classical music, most likely because instruments became more advanced and professionalism in music more pronounced after Bach. By some accounts the music that Bach was writing was often at the very edge of what professionals and their period instruments were capable of, and perhaps a little beyond.

After Bach, professional musicianship in the West became more specialized and more particularly idiomatic virtuosity developed for particular instruments. In other words, it was much easier for Beethoven to write a piece for the instruments and musicians of his day that is really only possible on that particular instrument than Bach.

That's maybe the more objective reason, but my definitely subjective reason would be that Bach's music is some of the best music that has ever been written in Western culture, and playing and studying his music is both enjoyable and an education. And the music that he wrote for various instruments to be played solo is some of the most interesting and complete music that a musician can play alone.

[Bertram Henze]

Just for the record, there are exceptions from the free instrumentation rule, of course. The Toccata in Dm is a show-off piece for the church organ only. Any other instrument can play the notes but it just won't be the same.