Adventures in cross tuning

[JeffD]

I was hoping to start a discussion about our experiences in alternate tunings. Not sure whether to put it here in OT forum, or in the Theory and Techniques. Hardly matters as most folks use the New Post feature and get everything in one list.

Anyway. I have made a commitment to DDAD tuning. Just going to leave one of my mandolins that way. I switched out the G strings for D strings, tuned to D, and tuned down the E strings a whole step.


And oh my goodness some great drones and double stops and cool stuff is possible. I will report what I discover or stumble over as I travel down that road.


At the very least it is a reason to bring two mandolins to a jam.

[Tobin]

I always avoided cross-tuning on the mandolin, thinking that there was really no need for it. I do keep one mandolin in "Get Up John" tuning, which is pretty much useless for anything other than that tune. Maybe that has soured my opinion on cross-tuning.

But now that I'm playing the fiddle and seeing how useful cross-tuning can be, it may yet change my mind for cross-tuning a mandolin. Granted, mandolin drones just don't have the same effect as drones on a fiddle, so I still don't see it as being quite as useful as it is for fiddlers.

On the fiddle, I've been experimenting with AEAE and ADAE. AEAE is great for fiddle tunes if you want to play one iteration up high and then another down low. ADAE is a great tuning for playing in the key of D or A, as it helps avoid that stretch to the C# on the low string. I can see these tunings being handy for particular tunes.

But I'm still not sure I fancy the idea of having to do a quick-change to a different mandolin (or fiddle) when someone calls a tune. And re-tuning during a jam is pretty much a pain, as banjo players will attest. So how do you handle this when you are bringing multiple mandolins to a jam? Do you just have to be ready to spring for one or the other as tunes are called?

[Darren Bailey]

Mike Compton has an album full of alternative tunings which sounds great and is always prompting me to give it a go.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I love cross tuning, and there isn't nearly enough of it in mandoland! I especially like CG CC GG CC (essentially DDAD voiced in C with some extra magic down low). I also often find myself in tunings that I couldn't get back to if I wanted to, such as:

https://soundcloud.com/mandobaron/cross-tuned-mandolin

Looking forward to seeing other examples!
Baron

[JeffD]

So how do you handle this when you are bringing multiple mandolins to a jam? Do you just have to be ready to spring for one or the other as tunes are called?

Well my plan anyway, is to have a repertory of tunes I can do creditably well in DDAD. And at the jam, I will have my cross tuned mandolin ready when one of those tunes comes up or when I want to start one of them.

I have more experience in GDGD and/or AEAE, though not a whole lot of experience I admit. I kept my "cross tuned" in AEAE for a time, but found I wasn't going after it.

Well I recently started playing with a fellow from north eastern KY, who plays fiddle (and mandolin, and banjo, and guitar, and makes good whisky) and plays a lot in DDAD. And many tunes that I know. So I tried it. I think it has a future place in my playing. We'll see.

[hokelore]

I have a mandolin that I tend to keep in some cross-tuning or other -- currently it's back in standard because my son had a very fleeting interest in taking up mandolin. I haven't gotten around to retuning. I enjoy the cross-tunings, but I don't think i get the resonances on mandolin that I do when cross-tuning fiddle or even octave mandolin.

[Tobin]

So over the weekend I cross-tuned one of my fiddles to AEAC#, and I'm really liking it. For tunes like Jack O' Diamonds (Drunkard's Hiccups) and Pretty Polly (the Missouri Old-Time version), it's good stuff!

[JeffD]

AEAC# is sometimes called Calico tuning. Greg Canote, one of my favorite old time fiddlers, keeps a calico fiddle. I have heard Black Mountain Rag in calico.

[JeffD]

I could see that a cross tuning that works on a fiddle might not on the mandolin. We drone differently. Also the other way, the fiddle cannot do the tuning we do for Get Up John, as we split the strings giving six notes, F#A DD AA AD.

[JeffD]

This from a posting on Fiddle Hangout:

Some notes to drive you nuts I believe this was from the california Bluegrass Assoc, although this was emailed to me -

GDAE is known in some North American Old-Timey fiddling circles as Eye-Talian tuning, - the implication
being that it is only one of many possibilities.

Other tunings include:

FCGD = Cajun Tuning (one whole
step down from GDAE)

GDGB = Open G Tuning

GDGD = Sawmill Tuning

GDAD = "Gee-Dad"

DDAD = Dead Man's Tuning, or Open

D Tuning, or Bonaparte's Retreat Tuning, or "Dee-Dad"
ADAE = Old-Timey D Tuning

AEAE = High Bass, High Counter (orHigh Bass, High Tenor)
similar to Sawmill Tuning

AEAC# = Black Mountain Rag Tuning,
Calico Tuning, or Open A Tuning

AEAD for Old Sledge, Silver Lake
EDAE for Glory in the Meeting House
EEAE for Get up in the Cool

[Perry]

Here's an old time tune in ADAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXVGxYUSWQ

[JeffD]

nice!

[Don Grieser]

I've done a bunch of tunes in GDGD tuning. It's great fun to play all the strings all the time. Here's one of the ones I posted on youtube. Skip Gorman plays a bunch of tunes in alternate tunings on his Mando in the Cow Camp CD. Great music.

[k0k0peli]

I've used GDAD (mandolin) and CGDG (mandola) a lot lately. I've just started with GBGD and like it; it may become the default tuning on my Russian flattop mandolin. GDGD sure sounds tempting, but with a twist (yes, I'm twisted), strung as Gg-Dd-Gg-Dd and played with fingerpicks, the thumb hitting the lower note in each course and fingers hitting the higher notes. That's the theory, anyway.

[vernob]

This is a great thread. I've come back to it several times. There are a lot good ideas. I use alt tunings on the fiddle on those rare times when I try to play it. I've used alt tunings on guitar for years and those are quite familiar to me. I don't have a mandolin to try those alt tunings, but I do have a zouk and a cittern and I'm trying to use some of those ideas. I loaned my mandolin to my son and he's 3,000 miles away. Oh well.

[jaymichael]

Anyone know the tuning Skip Gorman uses on "Buffalo Hump" ?

[Paul Kotapish]

AEAC# is sometimes called Calico tuning. Greg Canote, one of my favorite old time fiddlers, keeps a calico fiddle. I have heard Black Mountain Rag in calico.

The Canotes (twin brothers Greg and Jere) have another album of cross-tuned fiddle tunes in DDAD called Makes It's Own Gravy. Really great stuff. Very different feel from the brighter AEAC# Calico collection.

Sound clips, downloadable mp3s, and more from each of their recordings--including the two cross-tuned collections-- at the listen/buy page of their website.

Their site, BTW, incorporates one of he coolest site-navigation schemes I've ever seen. Worth a look and listen.

[JeffD]

Their site, BTW, incorporates one of he coolest site-navigation schemes I've ever seen. Worth a look and listen.

Yes it is very cool.

[Jim Garber]

Anyway. I have made a commitment to DDAD tuning. Just going to leave one of my mandolins that way. I switched out the G strings for D strings, tuned to D, and tuned down the E strings a whole step.

I am curious: why did you switch out the G strings for D strings? I would think they would be plenty floppy with the G-strings and overly floppy with D-strings tuned one octave down for deadman's tuning.

[bbcee]

Hi all, glad this thread was resurrected.
I've been listening to Butch Baldassari's great duet album with David Schnaufer, "Appalachian Mandolin", which inspired me to try cross-tuning. I love the tonality with all those drones!!

Forgive the newbie questions, but to get into calico tuning, I've capo'd at the second fret and so had to drop the two high strings. It occurred to me that with a capo that just did two string pairs, I'd only have to drop the high E's, and less than if capo'd.

For ADAD tuning (Sandy River Belle), a short capo would allow just capo'ing the low G's, and dropping the high E's, instead of futzing around with three sets of strings - I'm a little trepidacious to simply raise the G's up a step.

Maybe this is all an equal amount of work, but what do you all do? I've seen short guitar capos, but not sure if they exist for mando/banjo.

[Tobin]

I've never seen a partial capo for mandolin/banjo width necks. That would be a pretty rare bird indeed.

The partial capo idea could work, but it would really mess with one's sense of symmetry and fret positions. If you capo the low G, it can be awkward playing the 2nd fret on the adjacent string with that capo in the way. I'd think the better solution would be to retune to GCGC and then capo up everything to the 2nd fret for ADAD. That keeps the symmetry between the bottom two and top two courses, and doesn't require mental gymnastics.

[Isaac Revard]

I'm thinking about going AEAE...inspired by Compton playing Jenny Lynn. Now what string gauges should I use to safely pull it off without damage to the Mando (Eastman 514). Thanks guys and gals!! Love the idea of alternate tuning

[bbcee]

Oh geez Tobin, that didn't even occur to me!

Mental gymnastics ... I'm at capacity already. I'll stick with a full capo!!