Climate control in old Gibson factory?

[Wes Brandt]

I think of seasoning as the part where once wood has reached moisture equilibrium with the environment… preferably on the dry side… then the resins and oils begin to slowly evaporate and/or crystalize… the longer that goes on the better ...to season the wood.

Also there are the historical ideas that wood correctly stored outside (but covered) goes through the seasons, expanding and contracting, and becomes more stabilized with time.

I remember reading a excerpt from some very early writing on oil painting, when it was to be done on wood panels that would be installed in churches exposed to who knows what conditions, they would leave the wood they were going to use basically totally exposed to the weather for several years and the boards that survived the best were the ones used for the panels.

[sunburst]

As far as I know, experiments with moisture cycling of wood don't lead to any significant increase in stability of the wood. Also, as far as I know, about the only thing that is known to happen as wood seasons is gradual evaporation of hemicellulose. That decreases density without decreasing stiffness because hemicellulose doesn't contribute to stiffness in wood. I believe there have been some studies that show a slight increase in stability with seasoning and moisture cycling, but I don't think it amounts to a huge stability increase, and there have been studies that showed no significant difference, so...
I expect seasoned wood (even very old wood) to still be hygroscopic, to still move in response to changes in MC, but to be slightly higher in stiffness to weight ratio on average. It would be very possible to find a new dry piece of wood of the same species that would have a better stiffness to weight ratio because the natural variation within a species would take in more difference in stiffness to weight ratio than seasoning would impart.
In other words, while seasoning of wood is not a bad thing, and may well be a good thing, I'm perfectly happy to use a 2 year old piece of wood if I think it is a better piece of wood than a 100 year old piece.

[Wes Brandt]

As far as I know, experiments with moisture cycling of wood don't lead to any significant increase in stability of the wood. Also, as far as I know, about the only thing that is known to happen as wood seasons is gradual evaporation of hemicellulose. That decreases density without decreasing stiffness because hemicellulose doesn't contribute to stiffness in wood. I believe there have been some studies that show a slight increase in stability with seasoning and moisture cycling, but I don't think it amounts to a huge stability increase, and there have been studies that showed no significant difference, so...
I expect seasoned wood (even very old wood) to still be hygroscopic, to still move in response to changes in MC, but to be slightly higher in stiffness to weight ratio on average. It would be very possible to find a new dry piece of wood of the same species that would have a better stiffness to weight ratio because the natural variation within a species would take in more difference in stiffness to weight ratio than seasoning would impart.
In other words, while seasoning of wood is not a bad thing, and may well be a good thing, I'm perfectly happy to use a 2 year old piece of wood if I think it is a better piece of wood than a 100 year old piece.

I don't know about actual studies but it depends on what we are talking about… spruce cut at .160" for guitars tops dries faster, seasons faster than Maple cut into wedges.

I think the fact that the violin making world has believed in well aged wood for hundreds of years the result of accumulated observations not superstition.

I f you have ever seen fir ceiling or roofing beams from the attics of houses that have baked for 60-80 years here in the NW, I think you would change you mind about hardening… some of that wood is so hard cannot be nailed or screwed into without drilling pilot holes much of the time. And when you do see where the pitch has dribbled out, it's hard as can be.

[sunburst]

...I f you have ever seen fir ceiling or roofing beams from the attics of houses that have baked for 60-80 years here in the NW, I think you would change you mind about hardening…

???
Where did I say anything about wood not hardening with age?
There again, though my experience suggests that old wood is harder, that's anecdotal. If there are Janka hardness tests that actually show a hardness difference between old and new wood, then I'll believe it is true, but I don't trust my own observations more than I trust others'. I've been wrong before...
It boils down to this: I've got just enough scientist in me to only fully believe that which can be demonstrated with evidence, and that is subject to change if other evidence shows up. My natural skepticism was given a boost by recent double blind listening tests done with important old violins vs new violins. The experts cannot, it turns out, be demonstrated to be able to tell the difference. I hardly believe anything anymore!

[Jeff Mando]

"Back in the day" I think they called climate control something like "windows".

Exactly. Just a guess, but I'm thinking it didn't cross anyone's mind, back then. If you made mandolins in Michigan, you made them in Michigan. If you made mandolins in Florida, you made them in Florida, no big deal. Same with making cigars, hats, whatever.....

Probably the only concern was if the temperature was warm enough for the glue to dry. Cracking down the road, was somebody else's problem. AND, a 100 years later, seems they've held up pretty well, I'd say!

[Wes Brandt]

Hardness is definitely related to stiffness… same board but more stiff, probably less weight too and stiffness to weight is the key I believe.

I doubt any of those tests were by violin makers using 2 year old wood… probably more like 6 - 10 years… a good period for seasoning if kept in a dry, warm environment …and I think a pretty standard number of years for most makers...or more if they have been at it for a while.

I only sited the 80 year old wood as definite proof that wood changes as it ages.

I also believe intelligent observation and documentation is a form of science.. even if there is no control group.