K position?

[keithb]

I recently had someone recommend learning about the "K position" as a way of thinking about playing in any key in addition to FFcP. A bit of Googling tells me the concept comes from the "Fretboard Roadmaps" book by Fred Sokolow, but not much else.

Before I shell out the cash for a book that is often reviewed as "confusing," can anyone point me to an online resource that explains "K position".

[Tom C]

I learned about that K position through Barry Mitterhoff. I believe Barry studied under Bob Applebaum.

[keithb]

I learned about that K position through Barry Mitterhoff. I believe Barry studied under Bob Applebaum.

Interesting - do you know of any online explanations of the concept?

[Phil Goodson]

I bought and read the book many years ago, but never figured out the concept, if there was one.

I suppose it's possible that the K is supposed to be shaped like the pattern when playing out of a "chop chord" position. Not sure.

[billhay4]

I found the book confusing, too.
Bill

[Hubs]

I found the book confusing, too.
Bill

So I am quite happy that I am not the only one.

[keithb]

This is why I haven't just ordered the book yet!

[Toni Schula]

I bought and read the book many years ago, but never figured out the concept, if there was one.

I suppose it's possible that the K is supposed to be shaped like the pattern when playing out of a "chop chord" position. Not sure.

Same story here.

I think the concept is similar to playing out of the chord position. That is to hover above the places were the chord is and also use the neighbouring scale notes as "passing notes".
Bluegrass chop chords are assumed here.

This has similarities with FFcP, which I believe is the better mental anchor:
E.g. play G chop chord and then start a melody on the G note of the D string, 5th fret. You are in 3rd finger FFcP now (if you omit the open strings, of course).

[Tom C]

Its not a literal K patter, Its more of playing out of a closed position but not chop.
Do a pentatonic scale in E starting on 2nd fret of D string. Basically covers the D and A strings.
Expand that up to the E string and down to the G. You can almost make out a crooked K.

[Steve Ostrander]

I thought it meant playing in the key of K. I've only recently mastered the keys of Asia Minor and D minus demented......

[Peewee]

I don't think anybody else calls it the K position, so finding anything online might be difficult. I don't have the book, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong. What I've gathered from previous discussions, it's based on this rootless E chord which looks sort of like the letter K when you make it.


From that chord shape, you can derive this pentatonic scale, which is easy to move around the neck.


It's also pretty easy to add the missing notes (4th and 7th) to make a full major scale. If you add those notes on the D and A strings, I think it's the same as the 1st FFcP. Niles Hokkanen calls it the closed position in Bluegrass Up the Neck, other people might just call it a closed or moveable pentatonic scale.

[John Adrihan]

I have the book. Did not study it much. To me it is resembles what we call in Minnesota "Cramer chords"

[Phil Goodson]

...., it's based on this rootless E chord which looks sort of like the letter K when you make it.


From that chord shape, you can derive this pentatonic scale, which is easy to move around the neck.


....

Okay, if you say so. It sure seems like quite a reach to 'derive' the scale from the "rootless E". Seems like there are many easier ways to derive the same.

If it works for you, bless you.

[Peewee]

Okay, if you say so. It sure seems like quite a reach to 'derive' the scale from the "rootless E". Seems like there are many easier ways to derive the same.

If it works for you, bless you.

It actually doesn't work for me either. I never use that chord shape or think of it that way. I learned that moveable pentatonic scale from Bluegrass Up the Neck. I've heard a few people who really love Fretboard Roadmaps, but the general consensus seems to be that it's quite confusing.

[keithb]

I don't think anybody else calls it the K position, so finding anything online might be difficult. I don't have the book, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong. What I've gathered from previous discussions, it's based on this rootless E chord which looks sort of like the letter K when you make it.


From that chord shape, you can derive this pentatonic scale, which is easy to move around the neck.


It's also pretty easy to add the missing notes (4th and 7th) to make a full major scale. If you add those notes on the D and A strings, I think it's the same as the 1st FFcP. Niles Hokkanen calls it the closed position in Bluegrass Up the Neck, other people might just call it a closed or moveable pentatonic scale.

Thank you! This is the first reasonable explanation I've seen of the idea.

[mandroid]

The 2640 E inversion is a nice open string chord alternative to the 4677 I use a Lot..

the 6 to 5 is flatting the 3rd..Maj-> minor..



+ 4462 B is the 5th of E .. as is 4467. (forms moved Over.. )

[matthew71]

The K position was the idea of Bob Applebaum. He tried explaining it to me once. He is a nice guy so you might try emailing him.

[Jim Broyles]

That rootless E chord has an E in it.

[Three-Dz]

Niles Hokkanen - Bluegrass Up the Neck. This book helped me more than any other book I've tried!

[Joel Glassman]

This doesn't seem so complicated. I call it 1&5. If in E, you are centered on the root E on the D string and the B (the 5th) on the A string. Its a barre chord held down by the first finger on adjacent strings. That's the shape even if you don't place fingers on both notes.
I'd rather think of it like the E chord pictured here on the left:

The other basic root chord is 3&1--the 3rd = 1/2 step below the root on adjacent strings. Its the "chop chord". These relationships are true in all keys and positions.
The scale tones clustered around those shapes and others have a symmetry its easy to recognize after some practice. A "rootless" chord makes no sense to me. Its the root position which anchors you to the key, even if you choose not to play it.

[derbex]

I'm sure I have seen that chord progression in the game of life?

[terzinator]

I have the book. Did not study it much. To me it is resembles what we call in Minnesota "Cramer chords"

Cramer whatnow?

[bobrem]

I have never heard of the K position, but I did this video some time back that may help. It is approaching 100,000 hits so it must be working for a few folks. http://youtu.be/sYux0fZ0mc0