How to join a session?

[quietglow]

I've been playing for a few months (with some background in other instruments), mostly learning fiddle tunes, mostly Irish (I have long loved Irish fiddle tunes). I've also been slowly starting to find local sessions and really having fun listening. It looks like lots of fun, and I think before long I wouldn't mind finding a way to join in. The thing is, I have no clue how to approach it.

What's the etiquette when it comes to joining in? Also, I have been to a few and have only see a mando once, and it was a fiddler crossing over for a song or two. Should I hunt for a session that has a regular mando player?

I'm in Chicago, btw, so I have the luxury of having quite a few sessions nearby.

[Bertram Henze]

Irish sessions are friendly in general. So there's several points:

- the instrument: what you play does not matter as long as you play it well and in a way that sounds Irish in a wider sense. Mandolins are not a problem (they are also not loud enough to bother others, as a rule)

- what to play: it's good to know many of the tunes. It's not awkward to sit out those you don't know. Somebody starts a set of tunes, i.e. he/she determines what the tunes in this set are, typically playing each one 3 or 4 times round (after 3 times the rest will watch out for what comes next). It's not appropriate behavior to hijack somebody else's set by starting a different tune in the middle of it. Who starts a set is the leader of that set; that role typically passes between persons on a chaotic basis.

- how to get in: saying hello, taking a seat at the perimeter of the circle (all depending on location) and playing along with known tunes; no BG antics, please (chopping, soloing)! Once you've become confident in the process, you can start your own sets; with a quiet instrument, however, this can be difficult in the presence of fiddles, boxes, pipes: you'll need an ally near you who recognizes your tune and picks it up with his/her louder instrument (or you can get a louder mandolin or even - ahem - a tenor banjo).

- sessions can be of very different character, and having the choice you'll probably gravitate towards one or the other. Some typical categories are:

1 Care Bears: friendly people who play slow and soft and who stare you to death should you play too fast or too loud; they only play tunesets they have collectively agreed on and practised together; they'll regard you with pity should you start an exotic unknown tune outside their repertoire.

2 Mad Max: A gang of superheroes who play their tunes rough, loud and at breakneck speed. If you start your set at a moderate tempo, they'll pick up on your tunes at their own tempo and leave you in the dust.

3 Emperor's Audience: One accomplished player presiding a convention of lesser underlings. He will tell you what to play and how to play it. You can earn his respect by being a very good player by his standards, but you cannot challenge his standards.

4 Frequent Travellers: Musicians who often play in different sessions and who can quickly adapt to other players' qualities to gain a good common result. Mundane and relaxed. You guessed it: that's what I prefer. YMMV.

[quietglow]

Thanks much. I did some reading over at thesession.org and lots of what I found there echoes your points here. Lots of the "rules" seem to really just be manners i.e. don't show up and immediately start hogging the session etc. I am definitely not going to be doing that. I figure my best bet is to find a session that has some obvious beginners (one that I have gone to often has young kids) and ask if I can record. Then maybe spend a few weeks trying to learn some of the more obvious tunes. And THEN ask if I can sit in a bit. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

[Bertram Henze]

sounds good. Many celebrated players I have known started out that way.
Do not underestimate kids - the other week I played in a session and there was a 12yo with a recorder blowing half of them out of the water...

[John Kelly]

Very sound advice from Bertram here. Just go, listen, absorb the atmosphere and then introduce yourself and your playing gradually. Neither of us lives in the US, so it may well be that there are "rules" in Chicago that we are unaware of, but musicians are generally very willing to share their music with each other and to encourage newcomers into the circle.

Re the young folk - some of the best players at sessions are often the young ones who have a dexterity we older ones can pretend we once had many years ago! And there are no age limits in the sessions I have attended and still attend; all are equally welcome and it is the music that speaks for us all.

Let us know how you get on when you start to get involved.

[quietglow]

Yeah I meant to qualify the young player comment of mine: the last time I visited, a girl who was likely 12 did a solo tune that genuinely breathtaking. I definitely don't underestimate the power of youth!

[Randi Gormley]

What has worked for me is to arrive slightly early, while the earliest session regulars are arriving, and approach one (or the group) as they're organizing the chairs or whatever. That way, you're not interrupting a session in progress. You can ask to record, or ask if you can sit in. If there's designated seating (and I've been to places where there is), you take whatever seat you're assigned, even if its across the hallway, with good grace. If there's no designated seating, ask if anybody has a preference where you sit. This is their session, it's best to approach as friendly but not pushy. Don't expect to start a set until they specifically ask you. If you don't know a tune, put your instrument down. Take a sip of whatever drink you have. Bring the instrument back up only if you know the tune (or are a good enough ear-learner to pick it up the second time around or so).

I've never had a problem having a mandolin in the half-dozen sessions I've visited, but I also play fiddle tunes exclusively. I wouldn't know how to back someone, I'm not particularly conversant with the "chop" and the most soloing I've done is to start a tune nobody else knows, in which case I play it through once and stop. ITM is group music. The idea is to follow what the group does.

Bertram, I love your definitions!

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I can't stress Bertram's point enough: no chopping or counter-melody improvising. The rest, is just common courtesy like they said. Oh and remember to have fun.

[quietglow]

Yeah I should be clear: particularly as I'm a new player, my tendency is going to be trying to remain as inconspicuous as possible. Like, I am somewhat frightened by the prospect that someone might ask me to lead a set etc. I definitely won't be chopping or trying to improvise. I am sure that someday I might be concerned that the mando is so soft that it vanishes into the fiddles and accordions, but right now that seems like a blessing to me.

Randi, thanks for the excellent suggestion about showing up early to ask about recording. I was thinking about asking last week, but there never seemed to be a good time to ask (I arrived maybe 10 min after they'd started).

[Mark Wilson]

If you find yourself just observing ask if they will call out the song and key it's played. If you have a smart phone with a metronome app - tap out the beat to see how fast they play the tune.

Then you have a list of songs with typical playing speeds. Perfect for home practice getting started.

[Bertram Henze]

I love your definitions!

I've seen every one of those (and a few more), and I am not the only one, apparently.

[Bren]

As an ancient but frequent traveller and visitor to many strange sessions, I think Bertram's summarised it pretty well.

Here are some additional tips for venturing out at first:

If possible, find a playing partner that you can practise at home with and maybe go to sessions together. That really makes it easier.


Put new strings on a couple of days before going to session to let them settle in and have your mando sounding its best.

Arrive early and introduce yourself as a beginner or newbie while things are quiet and there's time and space to talk. That really breaks the ice.

Buy a drink, not necessarily alcoholic, even if they're free to musicians, so at least the staff are on your side. (In fact don't take any alcohol until you've played a couple of tunes, even if you plan to have a pint at some point). It's embarrassing seeing people coming to sessions in pubs and not buying drinks and it breeds staff resentment toward the session.

A seat backing onto a wooden wall is usually better for mandolin resonance - at the other extreme soft furnishings in the middle of a crowded room will make your sound disappear. That might seem a blessing but you at least want to be able to hear yourself.

Then again, if you choose the best seats, you might find yourself competing with established regulars!
if you don't know any of the tunes, relax and enjoy the music.

[stevenmando]

One mistake that I made , I was trying to find a group in the city that I was living and I found this nice group of people and I went over to their house , they had a set book of tunes that they played and even though I'm not a fast or fantastic player they blew me out of the water , but this was what they had been playing for a long time but I explained that I was never in a group and wanted to learn to play in a group , and it was my mistake, I should have found people that were in the same space I was in , and it made me put the mandolin down for a while and I love the mandolin, so there is a fine line when finding a group and having group members that are excepting of new people ,some are not but most are but I know now that when a group advertises for new member and they say experienced and non experienced those groups are wanting people to learn to enjoy the mandolin as they do, but a bad experience is hurtful but it should not be a hindrance to wanting to join in , after that I found people that just wanted to play and learn and years later I am still learning .

[Bren]

Steven just reminded me of something else.

Remember to breathe.

[stevenmando]

Thanks , I was only sharing my experience and if you deem it to ridicule then thanks and I will post no more

[PhilO]

Please understand that my limited experiences may be only anecdotal, and my only two Irish sessions experiences have been in North Conway, NH and Anchorage, Ak. Both were EXTREMELY unwelcoming. My skill level was certainly at the point where I could have contributed at
least few proper tunes, but I was never even given the opportunity. In North Conway, I asked the anointed "leader" if he could at least tell me what key the tune was in. His reply...."My wife has the keys....".
Needless to say, I have never returned.
On the other hand, after being VERY welcomed at two different "open" jams in Bozeman, Montana, I took it upon myself to start a jam...session.....call it what you may...definitely NOT Irish....upon my return to North Conway, my home. A busy day for us is 15 musicians....fiddle tunes and singing....a slow day is 7...and we are now into our 4th year. Just sayin'.....

[Mark Wilson]

I took it upon myself to start a jam...session.....call it what you may...definitely NOT Irish....upon my return to North Conway, my home. A busy day for us is 15 musicians....fiddle tunes and singing....a slow day is 7...and we are now into our 4th year. Just sayin'.....

Good on you! I'd like to do the same.

[foldedpath]

Please understand that my limited experiences may be only anecdotal, and my only two Irish sessions experiences have been in North Conway, NH and Anchorage, Ak. Both were EXTREMELY unwelcoming. My skill level was certainly at the point where I could have contributed at
least few proper tunes, but I was never even given the opportunity. In North Conway, I asked the anointed "leader" if he could at least tell me what key the tune was in. His reply...."My wife has the keys....".
Needless to say, I have never returned.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the two Irish sessions you attended, but please understand that there are thousands of Irish sessions out there in the world. There is no such thing as the "Irish session experience" because they're all different.

If there is only a single Irish session within hundreds of miles, especially here in the USA, I can guarantee they're going to be more protective of what they're playing, so they're not overtaken by guitarists who want a Grateful Dead jam. Areas with more Irish sessions to choose from are usually more relaxed, and less defensive. That's been my experience, anyway.

On the other hand, after being VERY welcomed at two different "open" jams in Bozeman, Montana, I took it upon myself to start a jam...session.....call it what you may...definitely NOT Irish....upon my return to North Conway, my home. A busy day for us is 15 musicians....fiddle tunes and singing....a slow day is 7...and we are now into our 4th year. Just sayin'.....

That paragraph is suggesting that non-Irish jams are more welcoming, which has not been my experience.

Anyone who has taken the time to learn at least a few of the common repertoire tunes, and is willing to sit on their hands (or whip out a recorder) to learn what a session likes to play, instead of feeling they have to play on every single tune, whether they know it or not... is always welcome.

Just sayin'....

[Bertram Henze]

Both were EXTREMELY unwelcoming.

Depends on what you expect. Welcoming does not mean you're hailed like a long-lost friend - upon turning up the first time you're bound to be the stranger in town, and every session is wary of those. Welcomes must be earned in Irish music, by modesty and by showing you can feel the music.

I asked the anointed "leader" if he could at least tell me what key the tune was in. His reply...."My wife has the keys....".

Uh-oh, you've asked The Question. Irish musicians fall into two categories regarding keys:

1 - most just memorize the melody of a tune and never know what key it is; some might have seen sheet music of it once, but they tend to forget that quickly later. And the melody is all you need to know for playing the melody. Harmonic concepts like keys and chords are an a-posteriori concept in Irish music, ignored by most and despised by some.

2 - those with some music theory background may know an answer, but they also suspect the reason for the question: a standard chord progression to be derived from the key for accompaniment, which almost never works in Irish music (other than BG/OT). They also suspect that the correct answer may cause more confusion, like "A mixo" (those who actually say that may have a camera ready for their Collection of Impossible Faces). Some tunes contain more than one key, some are ambiguous and could be noted in different keys without ever using accidentals. The truth is, the answer to that question is not likely to be helpful - if you can't hear what they are playing within a few measures, you are not supposed to play along for safety reasons (safety of the music, that is).

[Colin Lindsay]

Depends on what you expect. Welcoming does not mean you're hailed like a long-lost friend - upon turning up the first time you're bound to be the stranger in town, and every session is wary of those. Welcomes must be earned in Irish music, by modesty and by showing you can feel the music.

I had to make a quick sideways shuffle to 'The Session' website to see how many of these are duplicate posts of the same amazingly long thread on that website…. which is one of the reasons I left it long ago. What finally did it for me was the thread where someone announced that "he asks new players to play the rhythm of a slip-jig and if they don’t know he shows them the door"...
There are different kinds of sessions: formal ‘round the table’ kinds where each person performs in turn; classes where people come to be taught techniques and tunes, or informal play-with-a-pint kinds where almost anything goes.
I’ve been invited to sessions where there is definitely etiquette: don’t show off, don’t dominate the proceedings and wait until you’re invited to join in or play a piece. As Bertram says, you’re an unknown quantity until you prove otherwise, but this doesn’t mean showing you’re better or faster than everyone else. Watch and learn, and when the time is right - contribute. Strike a balance between showing what you can do, and showing off. They’re not all better players than you are and just because they seem to play amazingly well every session doesn’t mean that they’re brilliant players - just that they’ve practiced the same songs a lot. However: there are also informal sessions where anyone can attend and play; a great place to meet likeminded musicians and you’ll find little groups splitting away to dark corners where they can thrash out a few tunes of their preference. Definitely my favourites.

[Isaac Revard]

Any jam "session" that takes longer than 1-2 simple sentences to describe its "etiquette" is something to stay away from. Be polite and ask questions and well help you to understand the rest...should about cover it.

[PhilO]

In all due respect, I had stated that I was never even given the opportunity with any of the "common repertoire" tunes that I can play at speed.

[Bren]

Thanks , I was only sharing my experience and if you deem it to ridicule then thanks and I will post no more

Sorry Steve, I didn't mean it that way. I get very tense sometimes entering strange sessions and helps to remember to breathe, relax, get in the mood etc. I am trying to share my experience too.

[Bren]

In all due respect, I had stated that I was never even given the opportunity with any of the "common repertoire" tunes that I can play at speed.

I've definitely been in that situation too. You get sessions like that but they're in the minority among those I've encountered.

Sometimes I just wait for a break (sometimes there isn't a break!) and approach them and ask if I can play a couple of tunes. Sometimes folk will listen, sometimes they'll join in, sometimes they'll talk over the top, sometimes they'll all get up and go to the bar/outside for a smoke/fiddle with their phones. I've grown a pretty thick skin about it all.

[journeybear]

It seems that one of the themes running through the comments here is acceptance. Entering into a new social situation may be best achieved by ingratiating oneself to those already members of it. You want to be seen as being worthy of inclusion, of having something to contribute, of fitting in, perhaps moreover improving the session by your inclusion. To that end, perhaps the best way to join a session is to kill the banjo player. That may be a bit extreme; breaking his fingers may be enough. It would be wise to suss out the members' views on this first, by observation or inquiry, to determine the majority opinion regarding a permanent solution to what may be a temporary problem. You'll want to make sure you have support of most if not all the other members before entering into such action. If most of them are OK with the banjo player(s), you should relax, even relax your attitude, and be accepting of the instrument and player(s), or just move on. That might be the best approach, after all.