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Thread: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

  1. #1
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Just acquired a very nice teens or older American Conservatory bowl back...it has 50 rosewood ribs etc. One of the nicest american bowl backs I have ever seen. But, the finish is very crackled. Doesn't really bother me, but I wonder if I should EVER think about fixing it. The finger-rest (pick guard) shows it the most.

    Here's a picture: Click image for larger version. 

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    I wouldn't.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Mandolin User Andy Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    On an instrument where the finish looks intact, if checked, my advice is not to mess with it. That's what hundred-year-old instruments look like, and the finish is still doing its job of keeping stuff off the wood.

    If it's an instrument that's seeing regular use, and the finish is starting to come off, then it may make sense to restore the finish to a more functional state.

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    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    That is pretty much where I am with it. More important is that the neck is straight and it is very playable. I also need to get a good case (presently it is in a cheap one).
    Jammin' south of the river
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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    I would leave it, it's mojo. Only thing I might touch up is what looks like bare wood just next to the pickguard.

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    Resonate globally Pete Jenner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    No to botox.
    The more I learn, the less I know.

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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    I'd leave it. Personally, that's one of the things I like about older instruments (or anything wood, for that matter). The craquelure adds significantly to the character and provenance. Refinishing it would be a crime!

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    Mandolin Dreams Unlimited MysTiK PiKn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Look at it as being a beautiful old instrument that has been treated with great respect for a century.
    If you mess with that, then you aren't seeing it - and you won't see it again, as it truly IS. Learning how to maintain ancient materials is not easy; but the info is out there.

    "Necessary maintenance" is acceptable; but should be done with respect to what it truly is.

    Preserving originality is always first and foremost.

    Protective measures might qualify as "necessary maintenance."

    (some plastic pickguards, many years later, are still "drying" on a microscopic scale. On some instruments, the "drying" means "shrinking" - and if the pickguard is glued on, the shrinking can cause cracking in the wood nearby. My guitar has one of those pickguards, a slight "martin crack" developed near the pickguard - preventative maintenance, remove and reglue the pickguard, was performed by a very competent luthier.
    Having said that, I know NOTHING about your pickguard, or what it's made of, or if this even applies to 100 yr instruments).
    (My guitar is about 1/2 that age. Older plastics can be different. Is it even plastic?)

    = The Loar, LM700VS c.2013 = "The Brat"
    = G. Puglisi, "Roma" c.1907 = "Patentato" - rare archBack, canted top, oval
    = Harmony, Monterrey c.1969 = collapsed ply - parts, testing, training, firewood.


    "The intellect is a boring load of crawp. Aye. Next wee chune".

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    Registered User David Houchens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    I'd leave it alone. Like the rosette.

  12. #10
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Mystik has a good point - what is the pickguard made from ?. I'm surprised that the p/guard was varnished over any way. Usually the instrument is finished in 'whatever' & then the p/guard is glued on. It has it's own 'polished' finish - so why apply varnish ?.
    Without knowing exactly what it's made from - leave it. To make it look more acceptable & less cracked,you could try dabbing it with say,Almond oil on a cotton wool bud to see if there's any adverse reaction. If not,a wipe over with a dab of Almond oil,might bring it back to life,
    Ivan
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  13. #11

    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Shellac finishes can be reamalgamated by melting with alcohol and French polishing. If done correctly, there is little or no new finish added. Even so, I think I would leave this one alone.

    Usually the instrument is finished in 'whatever' & then the p/guard is glued on.
    That only became common practice in the 1970's and 1980's. Before that, virtually all pickguards were glued onto the bare wood and finished over. In this case, it appears the picguard is inlaid into the top. Those were almost always finished over.
    John

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    Mandolin Dreams Unlimited MysTiK PiKn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    I was thinking Novus Polish

    No abrasive = Novus #1
    Very Mild abrasive = Novus #2
    MORE abrasive = Novus #3

    I use Novus #2 on my gibby J45 (nitrocellulose laq) about once every 2 years
    - if I get around to it - yeh, whether it needs it or not.

    Novus is a plastic polish. for plastic. I use it cos luthier Judy Threet said so. I said "but it's abrasive". She said not to worry. It was about ongoing gentle cleaning. My guitar had a rough life before I cherished it. finish is like a road map to nowhere. Novus makes it look like a new one, from 10 feet.
    Judy also popped/reglued the pickguard, cleeted a couple of cracks, some hothide reglues, some other minor stuff, and started cleaning it - that was bizarre. It wasn't on my agenda; but it sure was on hers. She was also the one who taught me about stewardship - a magic moment in time. "You know you can never "own" this guitar; you can only be the "steward" of it". I was lucky to be there before she got too busy building.

    = The Loar, LM700VS c.2013 = "The Brat"
    = G. Puglisi, "Roma" c.1907 = "Patentato" - rare archBack, canted top, oval
    = Harmony, Monterrey c.1969 = collapsed ply - parts, testing, training, firewood.


    "The intellect is a boring load of crawp. Aye. Next wee chune".

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Cap, you have enough of these old pearls to know better than to do anything drastic, I kind of like the almond oil idea and understand the "freshening" with a gentle French Polish. I have no personal history with French polishing but, have seen it done and know the theory behind it.
    It's an old, very fine piece in, from what I can see, very very nice original condition. Were it me, I would let it be.
    I would not in any instance use any polish or restorative material made since the instrument was built. Modern products, unless specifically compounded for vintage finishes will not be wise. Nitro finishes are far more "bulletproof" than the vintage varnish on these vintage pieces.
    Just one man's opinion.
    I don't see any evidence of shrinkage on the guard, is it in the least possible that, given the age, it could be shell?
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Mystik, the plastic polish might shine it up but it will not get rid of the cracks. The only thing that will do that is more finish on top and in the cracks (probably not a good idea) or as John Arnold says to use an alcohol based finish that might melt the existing finish , assuming it is a shellac based original finish. Given its age that is likely.
    Bill Snyder

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    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Thanks for all the comments.
    Yeah, I'm going to leave it alone. I kind of wonder if it was over-sprayed long ago, what with the pickguard being crackled. No need to try and hide the history, but be proud of it. I agree the pickguard may be real tortise shell since it shows no sign of shrinkage. Could the saddle, nut, etc be ivory?

    I like the almond oil idea. May try that on a small out-of-view area and I might polish up the tailpiece and the tuner cover. They are probably silver plate.

    Here's two more pictures:
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    Jammin' south of the river
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    Penny Whistle
    My albums: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/album.php?u=7616

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  22. #16
    Registered User Kowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    You can't buy that type of beauty. I'd go for leaving it as it is. Sweet looking finish.
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  23. #17

    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    My thoughts:
    1. Looks fine to me, like a nice old instrument is supposed to.
    2. First rule of vintage instruments--NEVER mess with original finish. Second rule--NEVER mess with original finish.
    3. It is very easy to make it look worse.
    4. Even a perfect "factory" refinish, will still not look right. It will look too "new".

    5. The exception might be if a meth addict took a belt sander to an old instrument and worked it over for three days--then a refinish MIGHT be needed--certainly not the case here.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Almond Oil or a similar 'inert' natural oil,is often advised for use by experts on our Antiques shows,to bring T/shell items back to life.
    (not literally! - or we'd be up to our necks in re-animated turtles).I think all that it does is to replace the natural oils that the material once had itself,
    Ivan
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  26. #19
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    The checked finish is probably an oil varnish, and I think you are very wise to LEAVE IT ALONE. Any material you apply to the surface will no doubt get into the tiny cracks and be VERY difficult (impossible) to remove. As stated previously, it is very easy to make things worse, and some things are not reversible. Almond oil may be great for furniture, but don't get it on your checked finish or you will likely find the lines of checking darken over time. Polishes may be great for new finishes, but not a good idea for old checked finishes.

    Keep it clean with a soft clean dry cloth. Even a slightly damp cloth can leave a smeary mess on the surface of the old oxidized finish.

    Unless the pick guard is peeling up I would leave it undisturbed. The checking in the finish is a normal condition for something as old as this, and not something that should be "fixed".

  27. #20
    Registered User John Soper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    That's not crackled finish - that's MOJO!

  28. #21
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    The definitive answer: "Leave it Alone". Thus it shall be done. A nice caress with a soft cloth. Perhaps a touch of oil on the tuning machines. Some new strings (extra lights) and enjoy playing. It pairs nicely with my 1920 Gibson A-2. The only thing I need now is a good case. It came with a modern chipboard case. I believe Elderly still has some of the nice Eastman fiberglass ones.

    Oil finish?...makes sense in relation to the age of the mandolin.
    Jammin' south of the river
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    Penny Whistle
    My albums: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/album.php?u=7616

  29. #22
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Glad this Pearl is in your caring hands, Cap. I know you will treat it well and be the proper steward for the next generation to enjoy.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  30. #23
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should I even think about fixing this crackled finish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Almond Oil or a similar 'inert' natural oil,is often advised for use by experts on our Antiques shows,to bring T/shell items back to life.
    I highly doubt this is actual T/shell. Celluloid was used for these American Conservatory or Washburn pickguards.
    Jim

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