Replicating Gibson Mandocello Bridge

[alizarincrimson]

Hello,

I am planning to carve a new bridge out of ebony for K1 gibson mandocello and have lots of pictures but dont have an actual gibson mandocello bridge to look at.

Does anyone know the dimensions of these bridges. I would guess the footing is about 5.5" with 5/8 width or so and maybe 18 inch radius but would be great if someone could direct me to some actual measurements to get started.

Also, I may just decide just to use an archtop adjustable guitar bridge as a blank, any suggestions on which ones would work well with mandocello.

Thanks-- Mark

[pfox14]

I would suggest using an adjustable height arch-top guitar bridge, and just re-shape the saddle to accommodate the 4 pairs of strings, or just make a new saddle, but use the rest of the guitar bridge.

[mrmando]

Yep, when I needed a bridge for my K1, my luthier used an adjustable archtop guitar bridge with a reshaped saddle.

[MysTiK PiKn]

I would get a nice chunk of hard maple, and follow Red Henry's bridge experiments. He did one for a m'cello.
I would not use adjustable wheels and skinny metal posts post cos they are sound killers.
Red considers ebony to be a "dead wood".

If you really want to carve something nice that will create more volume and tone, then you have to try this. Or you can miss the chance to prove it to yourself. I am going to do this one of these days - the bridge on my TLoar700 is too light, and is an adj.

I did one before, using a "blank" mando adj. bridge - it was rosewood. I just threw away the wheelie things and the posts. Glued the saddle to the base = solid rosewood bridge. fit it. And shape the whole thing w sandpaper. Oil finish. The rosewood looked nice. The mandolin was a piece of junk plywood; but it blew away 5 guitars in a jam. And the bridge was poorly fitted, due to the plywood collapsing.

Red Henry's experiments revealed hard maple to be best. If you like black, you could stain it.

it's worth a google.

[Bernie Daniel]

Hello,

I am planning to carve a new bridge out of ebony for K1 gibson mandocello and have lots of pictures but dont have an actual gibson mandocello bridge to look at.

Does anyone know the dimensions of these bridges. I would guess the footing is about 5.5" with 5/8 width or so and maybe 18 inch radius but would be great if someone could direct me to some actual measurements to get started.

Also, I may just decide just to use an archtop adjustable guitar bridge as a blank, any suggestions on which ones would work well with mandocello.

Thanks-- Mark

Mark,

I'm on Hilton Head right now but when I get home this weekend I will send you some detailed pics of a Gibson K-1 mandocello bridge with precise measurements. You are right to use ebony.

Yes, you could use an arch top guitar bridge, I've done that several times with my conversions but if you want it to look right go with the real thing.

I am taking the back off my '36 K-1 the weekend I get back to fix top sag so I'll be tied up for a week.

But after that I'd be willing to carve one patterned after mine.

Bernie

[alizarincrimson]

Thanks so much for all the good ideas. I think I will start to carve one out of an ebony block but I am going to really take my time to replicate one as similar to original as I can. I am curious to see if it really makes a difference in volume/tone. In the meantime I will reshape footing of an adjustable archtop guitar bridge as suggested and then I can compare it to the hand carved version to put a single piece bridge to the sound test.

Bernie, I cant tell you how much I would appreciate your help with pictures/dimensions whenever you the time. Thanks again everyone. -- Mark

[alizarincrimson]

Just curious about hard maple vs ebony though. The original ones are ebony? For some reason all the gibson mandocellos I have come across and played have not had original bridges so I am not sure but guessing they are ebony.

I will take a look at Red Henry's bridge experiments. Thanks

[Bernie Daniel]

The originals are/were ebony. Maple is lighter (less dense) then ebony but I have never been overly impressed with the difference (gains?) that are achieved using maple for a mandocello bridge. Likewise I once made a bone saddle for a mandocello bridge and the change in tone/projection was not impressive or worth the effort.

Just curious about hard maple vs ebony though. The original ones are ebony? For some reason all the gibson mandocellos I have come across and played have not had original bridges so I am not sure but guessing they are ebony.

I will take a look at Red Henry's bridge experiments. Thanks

[MysTiK PiKn]

Just curious about hard maple vs ebony though. The original ones are ebony? For some reason all the gibson mandocellos I have come across and played have not had original bridges so I am not sure but guessing they are ebony.

I will take a look at Red Henry's bridge experiments. Thanks

Yes, they are all ebony originals afaik. Some were flat, as in "no feet" - or 1 foot vs 2 foot - it depends. Not sure; but I think originally gibson used 1foot - and perhaps later changed to a 2 foot design, with the arch between the feet.

I have no vested interest in any of this, other than it's interesting information. Red did some experiments with actual gibson ebony bridges, by modding them to his design - and reported improvements there also.

but it all starts with the idea that trying to push good sound through metal posts with wheels attached is simply not the best idea.

He experimented w about a dozen different woods initially. He was following the design of a violin bridge, but obviously thicker, and incorporated "wings" and drilled holes, and reshaped the wings, and the feet, tested different mass, weight, etc etc until he came up with what he reports boosted overall sound, tone, volume by approx 30%. A couple dozen other builders got involved as well.
Red was selling bridges also; not sure if he still does; but his email is on the site.

I suggest you follow your original plan; then if you have time, you could experiment, or buy one and fit it. but if it boosts your sound, I would love to hear about it. Like I said, I am going to do this eventually.

I have to say, I have mentioned this in a few places on the forums, and nobody believes it. No problem. My own humble experiment was somewhat successful, despite the fact that it was a crapola mando made of plywood. That mando collapsed it's original bridge; so there was nothing to lose.

This is simply information. It doesn't matter to me.

Link:
http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=79
.
.

[Bernie Daniel]

Red Henry's many experiments on mandolin bridge construction -- both design and wood types have been discussed (and debated) many times on this forum in past years. All of these experiments are interesting and provide lots of ideas & information for thought. OTOH none have been subjected to any objective testing AFAIK. I don't recall ever seeing any designs for a Henry mandocello bridges but the mandolin ideas might readily be applied.

Yes, they are all ebony originals afaik. Some were flat, as in "no feet" - or 1 foot vs 2 foot - it depends. Not sure; but I think originally gibson used 1foot - and perhaps later changed to a 2 foot design, with the arch between the feet.

I have no vested interest in any of this, other than it's interesting information. Red did some experiments with actual gibson ebony bridges, by modding them to his design - and reported improvements there also.

but it all starts with the idea that trying to push good sound through metal posts with wheels attached is simply not the best idea.

He experimented w about a dozen different woods initially. He was following the design of a violin bridge, but obviously thicker, and incorporated "wings" and drilled holes, and reshaped the wings, and the feet, tested different mass, weight, etc etc until he came up with what he reports boosted overall sound, tone, volume by approx 30%. A couple dozen other builders got involved as well.
Red was selling bridges also; not sure if he still does; but his email is on the site.

I suggest you follow your original plan; then if you have time, you could experiment, or buy one and fit it. but if it boosts your sound, I would love to hear about it. Like I said, I am going to do this eventually.

I have to say, I have mentioned this in a few places on the forums, and nobody believes it. No problem. My own humble experiment was somewhat successful, despite the fact that it was a crapola mando made of plywood. That mando collapsed it's original bridge; so there was nothing to lose.

This is simply information. It doesn't matter to me.

Link:
http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=79
.
.

[Bill Snyder]

Red used to post in this forum on bridge design as well as many other topics. He seems to be an interesting, personable and knowledgeable fellow.
Several people have made bridges based on his design and the reviews were mixed. Some sang their praises while others could not hear a difference or preferred their old bridge. This is what I would expect. After all what sounds good to you may not be what I seek.
FWIW, I made a bridge out of teak using one of his earlier designs as model. It was on an inexpensive mandolin (aka plywood) and I think it probably made an improvement over the mystery wood, adjustable bridge it came with.

[Mandoplumb]

Better watch that replicating. Gibson will get you!

[MysTiK PiKn]

There's different sections on Red's experiments. I get confused trying to follow the evolution of his best design. I tried to save the most interesting "stuff", and found myself backtracking to figure out what was happening. But there is a section where his best design was further tweaked - The bridges were numbered, where he made some final tweaks that really opened things up. In that same area, he did the tests with gibson's early bridges, made some copies in ebony, and then modified those. And somewhere in that area w the gib tests, there was presented a mandocello bridge - (mainly same idea only larger).

It's a lot of reading to go thru the entire process - but the details of construction, the final tweaks, - that's the info to find, and apply to anything that you might want to build.

Whether anyone tries it or not, or even believes it, doesn't matter to me. For me, it's just good to hear that some people are interested. Also, I did not know he used to post here.

It's information; and it could be helpful to some. He obviously put a lot of work into it, as did others who participated in his tests.

But I appreciate these comments here. Usually, if I mention this, people just ignore me. And that's ok too; but feedback is better.

So, thanks for that.



(if I can link to the area I mentioned, I will post it)

[MysTiK PiKn]

From my own summary notes: (there's lots more if you want to read more)
There's a mandocello bridge, and also the gibby tests.


http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=87

http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=91

http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=94

EARLY DEVELOPMENT
http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=96

(there are more links to others websites)

[MikeEdgerton]

You might contact Darryl Wolfe. He actually was setup to duplicate early Gibson bridges. He might already have what you're looking for unless your goal is to make it yourself come what may.

[Bernie Daniel]

Mark I put some pics of a Gibson mandocello bridge on the other string you started in the CBOM section -- at least I think that is where it is. BD