V Neck shape on Collings

[dcopper]

Hello all,
I am recent to the forum and purchased a Collings MT from a fellow forum member. After playing guitar for 40+ years I am really enjoying the "challenges" of the mandolin. I still do solo guitar work and am going to work a few mando tunes in to break up the solo work.

The only complaint, or at least concern, I have is that the Collings MT that I have with a 30mm nut has the deep V shape neck. My question for all of you far more experienced mando players is whether this is something i will get used to over time. I find that when I do moveable chording with barre like chords, the V hits me right in the middle of the thumb joint on my fretting hand. Maybe hand positioning is an issue and I will talk to my mando instructor this week who happens to also play a Collings MT. I love the MT otherwise and it is a gloss top and of course the workmanship and artistry is beautiful.

So, is this just me, is it personal preference or is it something I will adjust to over time?

Your thoughts and experiences would be greatly appreciated,
dcopper

[Joey Anchors]

It sounds like adjusting from playing guitar (where you hold your thumb behind the neck) to mandolin. On mandolin you do more of a baseball bat grip with your the meat of your palm on the back of the neck and your thumb a long the top edge.

[renoyd]

It's not just you. Some might say here that your hand will adjust to any neck profile and to some extent it's true. I tried to love my MT profile but wound up being just OK with, and "sort of" used to it. But it was always kind of a relief to play a mandolin with a more semicircular or D-profile. The thing is, there is a lot of force needed to oppose your fingertip force and everyone will tell you that you should generally not rest the back of a neck down into the crotch of your thumb and first finger. So with V shaped (actually more like paraboloid in the case of Collings) necks, the radius against the lower part of your thumb is smaller (sharper) and can result in more discomfort than a larger radiused D shape. The neck thus felt more "hard" and I found myself always experimenting with ways to find a sweet spot. I moved on from the MT more for other reasons but I sure do not miss that neck. Folks will chime in here who are big V fans but all of them had very strict parents.

[Roland Sturm]

Early Collings were rather annoying in that respect, thin and sharp V necks. I am a big Collings fan, but I sold several because of the neck shape, serial numbers were low hundreds, one in the 90s. Newer Collings (we have 3 of them) are much more rounded, two of them I would describe as a flat D, serial numbers >1000. Flatter and rounder than a typical neck on an Ellis.

[Beanzy]

If a V neck is problematic then you're probably holding it incorrectly, like Joey Anchors says.
Your thumb should be lying across the support offered by the V, with the very top of the thumb free of any role in holding the neck, just the side of the tip.
Mandolins don't need a great amount of force to fret properly, but it's quite common to hear of people transitioning from guitar who encounter problems. You can often read posts on here which discuss the "guitarists grip of death". I've never made the transition so wouldn't be the best person to highlight all th issues which can be faced there.
As a guide I'd say look at the top side of the V as a support for the side of your thumb and make sure you are properly angling the knuckles toward the nut. Always fret lightly and far enough back from the fret so you don't need much force or kill the tone.

[darylcrisp]

Hey DC

the Collings I've dealt with have been able to be setup with almost no relief and ending up with very flat necks, then dropping the saddle really low and achieving very easy fret action all over the neck. go one step further and put some light gauge strings(EJ73 work and sound nice) where you are new to this multi string powerhouse, and you will end up with an easy playing-but still plenty loud, instrument. Nut slots should be looked at and made sure to be set correct and as low as possible. Your right hand movement will adjust quickly and you will not feel like you have to rip the strings so hard, you will nuance them and end up with real sweet tone.
video of Mike Marshall showing basic tips, he is great to get you started on proper technique imo. for a more detailed guidance, join Artistworks and study Mikes offerings-it will be great for you-even if you already have an instructor. Some teachers don't go over this basic info very well.

[dcopper]

Thanks everyone and daryl especially for the clip. I will keep working at the fret hand positioning.
Having fun here.
dcopper

[Givson]

As a guitar player and mandolinist, I would say that if you find a particular neck shape uncomfortable, you should find a mandolin with a more comfortable neck. Regardless of whether you hold the neck like a guitarist or a mandolinist, a more comfortable neck will help you to play your best. Nobody else can tell you which neck will feel good to you.

[spufman]

Coming from bass/guitar to mandolin, I really appreciated the C shaped neck on my Tacoma. When I bought a V-necked Weber, I first wondered why the heck anyone would want such a shape. I very quickly adapted though and now I much prefer the V, it lets me keep a nice position no matter what fingerings I'm playing. I now cramp up on the Tacoma after a fairly short time. That was my transitional experience anyway.

[dcopper]

Well, I will fight my natural instincts and exercise patience in adapting to the V neck shape. Eventually the problem will solve itself. If I cannot get comfortable on the V neck, I will look for something that works better for me. Thanks again to everyone for their thoughts - each comment was a very valid one and shows how different experiences can be with playing the mandolin.
dcopper

[ralph johansson]

It sounds like adjusting from playing guitar (where you hold your thumb behind the neck) to mandolin. On mandolin you do more of a baseball bat grip with your the meat of your palm on the back of the neck and your thumb a long the top edge.

Really? No two hands are alike, to be sure, but most of us play with an almost straight wrist, or with a slight forward arch, e.g., when barreing (which, in my case, will force the thumb to slide below the fretboard). The infamous G chop shape will probably force a backward arch, but certainly not to the point of the neck resting in your fretting hand. Some players, like Thile, fold their thumbs back along the neck - I can't, simply because I ruptured one of the two thumb tendons in an accident 8 years ago.

The TS may be making the common mistake of trying to hold or support the neck with his fretting hand. Just secure the mandolin in place without using your fretting hand, then bring your hand to the instrument. There is a YT video of Thile (I believe it was shot at Carter's in Nashville) where he sits with the mando in his lap, talking, and then almost casually brings his hand to the neck and starts playing. And, of course, there's the Marshall video.

[mandroid]

thumb along the topside of the V gives you mobility up the neck

watch the left hand technique of trained Violinists .