Too True! (Pic)

[Petrus]

[Ivan Kelsall]

Been there & loved every second of it - 100's of times !. Money's not what all musicians are about. Some actually love what they're doing & like me,many have played for 'zilch' more times than not. I sincerely hope that anybody reading that poster (?) would realise that there's a good reason why musicians do exactly that all the time,
Ivan
PS - It wasn't me doing the driving. Back when i had my band,it was the mandolin player who did the honours. Three of us in a 2-seater car along with 3 instruments - get that one on a poster !.

[trevor]

My car isn't worth $500!

Another way of looking at it is having your priorities right. Cars are merely means of transport.

[MysTiK PiKn]

So take a 2nd mortgage on your firstborn, solemnly swear to the oath of perpetual poverty, sell your soul to the devil at the crossroads, and practice till you need new frets, and maybe we'll let you play, with the caveat that you play at least one gospel tune to properly satisfy the bluegrass police.
Beer not included.

And like many areas of art, music, literature, and other cultural pursuits, someone might make a reflective statement about how we treat our artists; but never mind all that, recognition is usually achieved after death.

Ah, yes, such a fine mandolinist. What was his name again? .......

gawwwwwd this is depressing.

[Petrus]

I read that the guitar used to be called a "starvation box."

[Astro]

You mean you get paid ?

[AlanN]

. Three of us in a 2-seater car along with 3 instruments - get that one on a poster !.

In the old days, they'd strap the bass on the roof and pray for no rain.

[multidon]

50 dollars? How about we are doing you a favor just letting you play? You expected to get paid! Hah!

[farmerjones]

IOW - I get paid for driving, hauling, waiting, and tolerating. I play for free.

I sort of wish money was worth what it used to be. But that's like saying, I wish I knew back then what I know now.

[FLATROCK HILL]

gawwwwwd this is depressing.

I guess so!
Here I thought it was a just a lighthearted, somewhat humorous look at my life until I reached post #4.

[Clinton Johnson]

Oh well at least we got a lot of good cooking outta the deal :D

[journeybear]

Dude! I was just thinking of posting this! I was wondering what thread it would fit on ... and then I saw you just went ahead and started one.

A friend of mine posted this to my facebook page. We had bumped into each other at a yard sale, and she teased me about my Blue Junkanoo, this beat-up broken-down van I drive, saying I'm such a cliché, driving such a musician's vehicle. I responded by telling her I paid all of $200 for it and I've gotten five years out of it, so I feel pretty darned good about the return on my investment. Of course I'd like something nicer, but it has served me and the band very well.

My response on facebook: I WISH I had a $500 car!

... there's a good reason why musicians do exactly that all the time ...

That may well be, but most of the time they're doing it for all the "bad" reasons! And they keep hoping they're gonna happen ...

IOW - I get paid for driving, hauling, waiting, and tolerating. I play for free.

Yep!

50 dollars? How about we are doing you a favor just letting you play? You expected to get paid! Hah!

I've been told in NYC if you're not already established YOU have to PAY to play! $10 a song!

[MandoJason]

A great friend, singer/songwriter from Alberta Canada (Scott Cook) mentioned to a crowd while we were backing him up at a Michigan festival last summer...."yeah, its a tough life on the road but there are hundreds of dollars to be made in the music industry these days..." I always get a kick out of that.
But we do it because we love what we do and life isn't just about money. we bring enjoyment through our sacrifice. its the noble musician who does this for others...plus playing/traveling around the country/world is the best gift music can give...
I wish I could tie it to my side and take it along with me!

[sunburst]

You just have to play the right kind of "music" (and maybe get a little lucky...).

[JeffD]

We are our own worst enemy in this, because we love it so much that we will do it for free.

I love my profession, I am very good at it, and I am very passionate about it, but I refuse to do it for free. Or even for much of a discount.

Musicians without name recognition and a significant following are stuck, because there are so many (of us) willing to take the gig for free pizza.

[catmandu2]

In yonder days, folks would study instrument playing for personal edification and other benefits of immersion in methodological practices. It's more recent times that have birthed the notion that people must be paid (cash money) to play music, and that music is something you pay to see someone perform on a stage...etc.

Specialists then (griots, minstrels, court musicians, et al) probably were highly accomplished, and in a number of respects. Not exactly folks with day jobs playing in a band..

[Tobin]

In yonder days, folks would study instrument playing for personal edification and other benefits of immersion in methodological practices. It's recent times that have birthed the notion that people must be paid (cash money) to play music, and that music is something you pay to see someone perform on a stage...etc

Well, to be accurate, playing music as a profession has been around as long as recorded history. Ancient kings had their own jesters, poets, and musical entertainers whose livelihood revolved around providing entertainment for the king and his court or guests. This would probably be considered the earliest form of paid musical acts, albeit it was typically paid from royal coffers, not from the public at large. Clan chiefs in Scotland and Ireland had their own harp players or pipers well before recorded history, and they were not only paid well but enjoyed no small degree of prestige in the community. These musicians made a living providing the music at gatherings, balls, parties, and other social functions which were put on by the noble class.

What seems to have changed in the last century or two is the idea of an independent musician or group existing and operating independently of a fixed employer, and drawing crowds solely for the purpose of playing their music (and charging the public for it). I do agree, it's a relatively new concept that seems to have accompanied the rise of capitalism. And while I certainly think it's a noble and honest profession, it does put us amateur musicians at odds with the professionals in terms of "turf". One cannot fault a talented musician for trying to make a fair living with his or her talent, but by the same token, one cannot fault a talented musician for simply wanting to play for others at no charge, merely for the love of music. The two must exist side-by-side. And as long as the latter exists, the former will struggle to earn top dollar at his or her craft.

[JeffD]

I think what is missing is a cultural acknowledgement that playing for fun, recreation, personal edification is a perfectly legitimate activity. So many many times the culture at large puts all who play an instrument into one of four categories - stars, rising stars, not rising stars, deluded.

I have repeated the comment often enough, my nephew asked me "Why do you play the mandolin Uncle Jeff? Isn't that what musicians do?" I have also recently gotten more than a few comments about how can someone my age possibly hope to "make it". "If you haven't made it by 22..." and so on.

Back before recording technology many many folks played just to entertain family and friends or dancers in the local community. The automobile and the radio brought county wide, state wide and country wide stars into the world. When folks heard how great some of these "stars" were, I think the enthusiasm for just playing in the living room kind of died away.

[Randi Gormley]

(following what Tobin said ...) Well, there also were hired bands who played for any individual who needed them -- I'm thinking of private house parties in Dickens' time, and Austen's, where whoever was giving the party would hire musicians to preform dance music; there were circulating performers, too, who gave performances at salons ... and I would think the fiddler or fiddlers who traveled the back country playing at barn dances and whatnot got paid as long as they weren't locals ...the history of music performance is probably as complex as that of any other art or trade.

I do think the increase in spendable income and the ability to move up socially may have contributed to the rise of amateur musicians; families could afford instruments and lessons, for one thing, and the higher social orders (from what I understand) usually considered playing a musical instrument to be a necessary accomplishment.

[Willie Poole]

Ivan, That is about as bad as this: I bought a used Chevy station wagon for $60 and installed a CB radio in it that cost $250, you all remember CB`s don`t you? My sound system and instruments now do cost quite a bit but it still doesn`t come up to the value of the vehicle it in...

Willie

[journeybear]

Also, a few centuries ago there was a patronage system, whereby well-to-do people supported musicians, composers, artists, writers, inventors, etc., who received room and board and often stipends in return for their creative output, whether specifically commissioned, of their choice, or a combination of the two. There would be competition among the patrons as to whose resident musician was the best. I'm sure the musicians who were fortunate enough to be patronized in this way often were taken care of very well. I wish such a system were still in place. The way some record companies took care of their marquee artists was similar but different.

BTW, if anyone knows someone rich who is looking for a musician to sponsor, I'm available. And I'm willing to relocate - have mandolins, will travel ...

[catmandu2]

It can be very dismaying: enacting a humble ritual traditionally on the level of local custom - for an audience subjected in virtual totality to its own ritualized ruthless objectification (commodification) of the local ritual.

But like everything in contemporary societies - there is diversity and opportunity: despite contemporary culture and its disposition WRT arts and various ritual (largely, the ritualization of the pursuit and acquisition of independent wealth, versus communal integration by necessity, etc), there is still great reliance upon these ritualized (local) forms, as well as additional opportunities created by their commodification.

There are still places where local music is relevant: create the family and community you would like to see - don't wait for it to happen systemically. I perform my music where it is received (appropriately), on the level that I prefer. It has meaning on this local level; I don't know, nor expect, that it would have appeal beyond (nor do I care, particularly). If I expect compensation, I may be open to food or goods or even services. Generally, when I perform, I'm as much aware of my utilitarian function as my aesthetic function.

Like anything, music has to be relevant to have meaning (and value). You may need to create the venue or milieu yourself, if you can't find it.

The musicians of old were probably anything but irrelevant, as music itself was likely experienced (and valued) much different than it is today. Create your niche/patronage/relevance.

[journeybear]

At the risk of helping turn what was originally a lighthearted chuckle of a thread into a ponderous groan of intellectual discourse, I'll continue - and apologize in advance for my part in this newest excursion down the rabbit hole.

I believe it's very true that music was held more dearly in days of yore than now, and I attribute this transformation to the rise of electrical and electronic technologies. Before the 20th century, if you wanted to hear music, you had to make it yourself or listen to someone else do so. Live music broadcast on radio and recorded music made available for sale in a succession of formats had a massive impact on that. And once music became accessible with the turn of a knob or the drop of a phonograph needle, its importance slowly began to erode. Especially the importance of music-making diminished, eventually degrading to the point where it has been for a few decades, as the concurrent rise of the concept and prevalence of background music took hold. I aver that the notion of "having music on" in the background, as a secondary experience to one's focus, rather than listening to as the primary experience of one's focus, is a very recent phenomenon, and is detrimental to music's value. I've seen children's befuddled expressions upon seeing live music performed on instruments, as if they had no idea that's where music comes from. It's very disheartening.

It's also discouraging for people trying to make a living from playing music, knowing you're up against venue owners and managers with an eye on the bottom line, who may just as well turn on the radio or jukebox and save their money, or even prefer to, as well as a listening public given to apathy.

[Timbofood]

'69 Pontiac executive 400 station wagon...$300.00
Full (small) PA 2-columns, 4-mics and stands, head, cords, etc.
3- guitars
1-mandolin
2-banjos
1-fiddle
1- string bass
4- full size twenty something's
Drive fifty miles each way.
It was FUN!
Bar owner was gorgeous! Sadly the place burned to the ground about a month after we stopped playing there. Country bands equipment was in there. Well, some of it was. Sad for them.

[Londy]

LOL....all too funny and unfortunately true. ...was looking for a sad mandolin smilie, but oh well