Question I have a Gibson flatiron 2001 master model.

[Girouardfan]

Would it be an upgrade if I traded my Flatiron for a 2014 Weber Yellowstone F Mandolin or would it be pretty similar? I'd only do the trade if I thought it would be a good upgrade, Whats your opinions?

[Josh Levine]

They sound a little different. I think the Weber has a slighly sweeter tone, but Flatiron has a grassier, punchier tone. Personally, I prefer the Flatiron tone.

[F-2 Dave]

Quality wise, it would be pretty much a lateral move. They're both very nice mandolins. It would probably just come down to condition and personal preference. Is the Flatiron an Artist or a Festival?

[DataNick]

+2...


Depends on whether you prefer Weber or Gibson voicing...as previously described...Not many "traditional" bluegrass mandolinists play Webers or Bozeman Flatirons...I'm not saying they're not good, I happen to like them; but for traditional/hardcore bluegrass tone, I prefer Gibsons. Your 2001 Flatiron is a same period F5G. I personally have liked Yellowstones that I have played, nice mandos...If I was looking to upgrade, then I'd be looking at an Ellis, Duff, Heiden, Collings MFV, Red Diamond, etc.

[Girouardfan]

Its a Festival.

[Girouardfan]

I prefer a grassier punchier tone over bright tones. I'm not comparing a breedlove to a webber but I use to own a breedlove and it had a brighter tone and i'm into that as much I like a balanced tone the best.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

DataNick,
All of those brands you mentioned as an upgrade are at least twice as expensive as the mandolins he mentioned!!! That's a big move for a guy looking to make what amounts to a lateral trade.

Girourdfan,
Its not really an upgrade in dollar terms and is only an upgrade for you if you like the Webber more. There are diehard Flatiron guys and diehard Webber guys. Every mandolin is different but as a whole, Webber's tend to be sweeter but have less volume, Flatiron's tend to have more volume and e a little more raw and cutting. That's my view anyway.

[DataNick]

DataNick,
All of those brands you mentioned as an upgrade are at least twice as expensive as the mandolins he mentioned!!! That's a big move for a guy looking to make what amounts to a lateral trade...

Mike,

He did say "upgrade" and deals can be had. For example there are various flavors of Gibson F5L mandos in the classifieds right now from I believe $4800-$6200; yet I paid $2K cash and an Eastman md515 in trade for mine. The Flatiron is really an F5G so in my mind those are what I'd be looking at as a next level upgrade...and I think that's the point: the Weber is a lateral move. Next level up from an F5G I believe are the brands I listed and more. Then there's the A model factor; some killer A models out there in the $4K-$6K range as well.

BTW: Does you Heiden have an adjustable truss rod?

[almeriastrings]

The real question is what do you upgrade to from a 2001 Gibson F-5G, because that's what your Flatiron effectively is. In other words, these are a really good mandolin on the whole, and you may not even need to upgrade. If you do want to, then you have to move up quite a way to get anything significantly different/better along the lines DataNick suggests. F5-L/Ferns are prettier, yes, but not invariably better sounding than the G's by any means, so that is not always an 'upgrade'... though the recent post-flood Harvey examples can be very nice indeed.... personally, I'd be looking at some small shop, red-spruce stuff....something structurally different and I'd take my time doing it and compare directly with existing Flatiron.. Ellis and Heiden A-styles would be at the very top of my list.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

DataNick,
No, it has an ebony non-adjustable rod.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I agree with you on a Duff as an upgrade that isn't twice as much. Also a Poe, Clark, Hamlett, BRW, Collings MF5, Daley Standard, Elkhorn, Rattlesnake, Randy Wood....

Many of the quality small shop makers would be an upgrade from a Flatiron IMHO. The question is what does upgrade mean to you. Upgrade in dollar terms is easy and all of those mentioned are more expensive. Upgrade in prestige is harder to quantify and would lead to a bigger well known name-duff, wood, Daley, and the 8k plus guys. Upgrade in tone is totally subjective as I guarantee there are guys who like their flatiron's more than a Gil... I have a friend with a flatiron f model, a Giacomel and a top of the line Collings MFV and he still plays his Flatiron mostly. It's what He likes. I personally think his collings is in a different class but there you go.

[bradlaird]

Since it is still, as of this writing, impossible for a manufacturer to crank out exact duplicate mandolins--absolute clones in terms of sound, feel, look-- I would be cautious of generalizations like "a Flatiron", "a Poe", etc.

It is true that mandolin "brands" do share similarities. My flock of laying hens share some aspects of color, size, egg-laying ability, egg color, personality, etc. Even though they are all the "same brand, same model" (in a catalog they are "the same") I can recognize each of them individually. It took some time. There is the slightly shy hen, always last to leave the coop. There is the sneaky one who is always first to show up when I toss their food. I could go on about each of them. To the casual observer they are all identical.

Saying anything about "a Flatiron" or "a Gibson" should be considered exactly as saying anything about a "Rhode Island Red" or a "Barred Rock". They share basic traits but within the group will be individual variation. Sometimes huge variation is present. (That's how we got all those fancy chicken breeds... variation. Same goes for mandolin breeds.)

Everyone in this mando game for very long has run across these instruments. The Collings which does NOT have a slicing chop. The Gilchrist which surprisingly sounded like it was full of sand. The L. Loar which had a funky, hollow something going on with it. A don't forget the Michael Kelly which, for who knows why, was slaying all comers. And then it died.

Take care and choose your mandolin individually.

[UsuallyPickin]

It all depends on what you want to sound like. And as stated and restated above you have a fine instrument. Trading up for a better one will take a significant investment. IMO the Flatiron tone is preferable to the Weber. Though that is a matter of personal taste not a matter of quality of build. My advice ..... keep the Flatiron and save some money looking at mandolins in the 6 to 10 K range while you are doing so....... Luck.. R/

[CES]

Since it is still, as of this writing, impossible for a manufacturer to crank out exact duplicate mandolins--absolute clones in terms of sound, feel, look-- I would be cautious of generalizations like "a Flatiron", "a Poe", etc.

It is true that mandolin "brands" do share similarities. My flock of laying hens share some aspects of color, size, egg-laying ability, egg color, personality, etc. Even though they are all the "same brand, same model" (in a catalog they are "the same") I can recognize each of them individually. It took some time. There is the slightly shy hen, always last to leave the coop. There is the sneaky one who is always first to show up when I toss their food. I could go on about each of them. To the casual observer they are all identical.

Saying anything about "a Flatiron" or "a Gibson" should be considered exactly as saying anything about a "Rhode Island Red" or a "Barred Rock". They share basic traits but within the group will be individual variation. Sometimes huge variation is present. (That's how we got all those fancy chicken breeds... variation. Same goes for mandolin breeds.)

Everyone in this mando game for very long has run across these instruments. The Collings which does NOT have a slicing chop. The Gilchrist which surprisingly sounded like it was full of sand. The L. Loar which had a funky, hollow something going on with it. A don't forget the Michael Kelly which, for who knows why, was slaying all comers. And then it died.

Take care and choose your mandolin individually.

Almost spewed when I read the "And then it died" line, because that is what they seem to do, lol. But, agree with you completely about the danger of generalizations wrt individual instruments. I've played 2 real Loars. One was pretty underwhelming. The other was phenomenal...

[NUGGET]

Just to add my $.02 worth. I have a 99 Flatiron F model as well. When I was looking to buy I played a LOT of instruments within the same budget of the Flatiron. I agree that you will find differences in tone between identical makes/models of instruments. The Webers that I played seemed to have a brighter tone (not a bad thing just brighter). I preferred the woody chop of the the Gibson so went with it. You would really be making a lateral move as far as quality goes. Play the Weber and if you like it.... get it. You always have the option of trading again.

[mandotrout777]

Would it be an upgrade if I traded my Flatiron for a 2014 Weber Yellowstone F Mandolin or would it be pretty similar? I'd only do the trade if I thought it would be a good upgrade, Whats your opinions?

I have played your Flatiron, and I'm fairly familiar with Weber Yellowstones from 2007 up to when they left Montana. Assuming that 2014 Webers are at least as good as the late Montana-made ones, I would say you'd be getting an upgrade. This would especially be true (IMO) if you play anything but bluegrass.

I traded your Flatiron for a new Gibson Fern without playing the Fern first, but only because I was confident I was getting a serious upgrade. If you are uncertain, and you can't play the Yellowstone first, I'd say wait until you can play something that you're sure about.

[karlmando]

I have played your Flatiron, and I'm fairly familiar with Weber Yellowstones from 2007 up to when they left Montana. Assuming that 2014 Webers are at least as good as the late Montana-made ones, I would say you'd be getting an upgrade. This would especially be true (IMO) if you play anything but bluegrass.

I traded your Flatiron for a new Gibson Fern without playing the Fern first, but only because I was confident I was getting a serious upgrade. If you are uncertain, and you can't play the Yellowstone first, I'd say wait until you can play something that you're sure about.

Agreed. There is a big difference in tone with the Webers vs. Flatirons vs. Modern F5Gs, (IMO) and definitely a difference in feel of the neck. So overall it depends on what you like. Jeff, how did your Gibson Fern sound compared to the Flatiron? My limited experience with a 99' Flatiron and recent F5G demonstrated very different tonal qualities.

[Charles E.]

His user name is "Girouardfan", perhaps he is holding one of Max and Lauri's mandolins in his avitar. I was considering an upgrade in an F style mandolin and looking at Weber Bitterroot and Gibson F5-g mandolins when a Girouard F-5 turned up at Mandomutt last week for a great price. I jumped on it and am sure glad I did. The fit and finish is outstanding and the tone is great. I posted photo's of it in the "Post a picture of your mandolin" thread earlier this week. I would encourage the OP to keep an eye out for one of these.

[Elb2000]

Interesting discussion, since I’m also looking to upgrade my 1984 Flatiron A5. I traded a Weber Bitterroot for my Flatiron. I found the Weber to have more lower/bass end and a better chop, but I preferred the balanced tone of the Flatiron. As a fairly new player, to consider making a change I have to do a direct side by side comparison to compare two mandolins.

[almeriastrings]

There is a substantial - general - difference between the Montana Flatirons and the ones produced during the Nashville period as the earlier "unique" features (neck joints, x-brace to tone bars, top graduations) were changed to the point that by 2001 they were identical to Gibson's of the same period. So, it really depends what you're looking for. You can of course find really nice examples from any period, but there a big differences in 'voicing' and construction, depending on which year is under discussion.