Playing "Licks"

[Jim1hays]

When playing "Licks " using the pentatonic scales, does it matter what note you start with and what sequence you use?

[sblock]

yes

[Jim1hays]

I know you have to be in same scale as chord being played but is there a recommended pattern to play the notes?

[John Flynn]

The idea with the penta is that if you are doing a 1-4-5 chord progression, all five notes will "work." But playing them randomly is just sound, not music. There are many stereotypical penta licks. You should learn them and see how they fit into tunes. Then you can start to improvise with them. But I think it's more about "feel" than setting up a general rule.

I think what is more essential to know the melody and the chord structure for any tune you are playing, concentrate on that for improvisation and use pentas for fills and turnarounds.

[Jim1hays]

Thanks John!

[farmerjones]

Let's say you're trying to find the correct note by ear. It may be in practice, or it may be in a jam where you get thrown a break, and you haven't played that particular melody before. The pentatonic scale lets me walk to the correct note in fewer steps than, an octave, or worse case, chromatic scale.

Y'know, the only note you need to get right is the one at the end of the phrase.

John Hartford is justa smilin' down.

[Killian King]

If you analyze pentatonic licks (patterns is probably a better description), they generally begin on either the Root, Third, Fifth, or Octave(root). The sequence is really whatever sounds good to you. Experiment and I guarantee you'll stumble upon some you like or recognize.

[T.D.Nydn]

pentatonics can be used in many ways.they are technically any 5 notes you want.you can begin and end anywhere you like and start them anywhere,right in the middle of a scale for example.there are other tricks like moving the root up a third or fifth for a jazz sound.if you are playing ,and hit a cool note,,try building a pentatonic right on the spot using that note.if you wish to break away from always sounding bluesy,try listening to piano and trumpet players,,man can they use pentatonics in so many different ways..if you really wish to know the truth about pentatonics and what they are fully capable of...I most strongly recommend studying "technique book one" by Frank Gambale.....just amazing information

[Killian King]

Jim - I see from another thread that you have Jesper Rubner's mandolin improvisation book. My observation above is from the pentatonic licks in his book. Check it out and you'll see what I mean.

[JeffD]

The idea with the penta is that if you are doing a 1-4-5 chord progression, all five notes will "work."

I think of pentatonic scales as a map of all the safe notes. When nothing more adventurous occurs to me, at least the notes in the pentatonic scale will keep me out of trouble.

[UsuallyPickin]

No and yes ..... Insofar a phrasing you want to compliment the tune. The five tone scale is composed of "safe" tones so which tone matters but not as much because there can be more than one good choice. But as stated above a flurry of tones is a lick but not necessarily a lick you want to use. Be thoughtful of rhythm as well as melody when selecting which and what to play...... don't neglect to slide into , out of or repeat tones ..... R/

[T.D.Nydn]

You don't need safe tones if your playing "outside" jazz..where pentatonic substitution really comes into its own,,you can slide into them,,any note can be entered from a half step above or below..they can also be connected chromatically...

[Joel Glassman]

There is a trap to improvising with pentatonics. Certain famous musicians [and others] make patterns of the 5 notes and play them as 8th note licks over everything. Regardless of how the chords are changing or what the underlying melody is. The result is kind of regimented and bland. I don't think pentatonic patterns should be the "main flavor in the stew". Its interesting to hear solos made from fiddle-tune type melodies for example. Another concept is to reorient your finger shape when the chord shapes change. For example, the fingers form a G shape in the air above the bottom 3 strings. You reach out and mostly play chord tones for your melodies, with connecting notes. When the chord changes to D, you reorient your fingers that way. Its an exercise in "playing the changes". Sometimes playing pentatonics isn't. [You could always move to D pentatonic licks, but thinking chordally gives you a different and maybe more flexible sound.]

[T.D.Nydn]

Joel,,,yes I think I agree..the way most people play pentatonics are completely boring,usually to the listener.sure you can play C maj. Pentatonic over a C major chord,,but this is very mundane,,,try playing E or G pentatonic over C major and see what happens.pentatonics should not be looked at as "safe tones".. In jazz it's just the opposite,it's the scale that's your saftey.in jazz your scale is looked as consonant and the pentatonic as dissonant.the balance of the two is controlled by you.to much consonet is tedious and boring to the listener,to much dissonance and you lose your listener,,no matter how far out you play,you must always relieve tension and come to a resolution to bring the listener back.

[Paul Cowham]

This clip is quite interesting about pentatonics

[T.D.Nydn]

I think this clip is more about modes and understanding modal playing than actually pentatonics really.

[T.D.Nydn]

I'm going to try to sum this all up.here is a simple way of understanding the role pentatonics have in soloing and make you sound like you really know what your doing.all you do is move your pentatonic up a half step or below a half step. Let's take a Cm7 chord.you will be soloing using the Cm7 scale,but interject your Cm7 pentatonic up a half step.so you will be playing essentially C#m7 pentatonic,then lower it a half step, you will be playing Bm7 pentatonic.so ,soloing now, you play Cm7 scale, then throw in C#m7 pentatonic,then come back to Cm7 scale,play some more and then drop down a half step and play the Bm7 pentatonic and back again ,you can do this at will.just raise your pentatonic up a half step or lower it a half step and now you are automatically cool.

[Joel Glassman]

...and now you are automatically cool.

Its a mandolin, so you'd be in a very small category which includes Andy Statman...

[T.D.Nydn]

First,I know it's a mandolin,,you can use this in any music ,it's called music theory,.it can only help to add color to your playing.."it's a mandolin" is not a good excuse to learn.

[JeffD]

There is a trap to improvising with pentatonics. ... The result is kind of regimented and bland.

Very true.

[jshane]

I have avoided posting in this thread... but I really have to wonder... If all I have to do is play variations on a 5-note sequence moved up and down a half-tone, in any of a number of patterns... where is the art and soul of music? I guess I will stick to trying my darndest to play what I hear in my head. I'll pass on being automatically cool.

[Chip Stewart]

The pentatonic scale is a good starting point for us beginners just starting to learn how to play lead (solo) type parts. It should be the start of the journey, though, not the whole trip. Even using the pentatonic scale, it takes time to find a combination of notes that sounds "musical". A bunch of notes strung together is not necessarily music, no matter what the shredders might say!

[T.D.Nydn]

The art and soul is to learn to manipulate your listener ,to take them on a sonic journey,,you don't play anything mindlessly,,you make music,,and that's not all you have to do,,it's an example I used to demonstrate some possibilities,,

[T.D.Nydn]

Chip...you are correct.i may have gone to far out on a limb here.you see,I come from a large musical background,and have been learning this stuff for a very long time.i have practiced in the past till my fingers have bled,taken courses and have a large musical library that I have studied like my life has depended on it.my intent is to pass on what I have learned,to help people,certainly not to hurt them.the last thing I wish is for people to see my name and cringe.even though I just started the forum I am going to bow out.but I make no excuses,I stand by everything I have written..." I am what I am and that's all that I am"....popeye

[MandoJason]

This may help provide direction w/ the Pentatonic Scale uses in our playing...others have touched on this but I find the most value in the pentatonic scales is using them over certain chords in the progression to develop a cohesive improvised line. I'd say it sounds too bland riffing over the pentatonic scale in most settings unless the chord progression is active or complex harmonically, etc. So, maybe try playing a major scale idea over your I chord (Assuming your practicing something in a MAJ key) and let it slide into a pentatonic scale lick over the IV chord (you'll notice the IV chord shares a common tone found in the pentatonic scale w/ the I chord i.e. GMaj (I) is made up of GBD triad. IV Chord (C) made up of CEG triad and the V (or V7) chord D7 is made up of DF#AC (C is the b7th). Common Tones b/t I and IV are the G. Common tones between IV and V are C. SO you want to use the PENTATONIC scale in your playing BUT STILL follow the chord progression. This gives interest, helps the ear and helps create a cohesive solo/improve line that offers color/contrast/etc. Options over the V7 chord are endless. An easy one for starters is the MIXOLYDIAN MODE (Maj scale w/ b7). Now you're using the Pentatonic Scale but also employing other devices that allow the PENTATONIC scale to still seem interesting.
LAST BIT OF MY RAMBLE- Use the notes between the cracks in the pentatonic scale to create chromatic lines/alter the chord/etc. This will add interest to the licks you know in Pentatonic fingering.
I hope this helps...happy picking!