Playing in multiple styles / Monroe / Steffey / Thile

[9lbShellhamer]

Hi Gang,

I have a sort of tough question.

I consider a main keystone of Monroe style mandolin to be playing out of chord positions and playing double-stops. I've been working on learning this form and I really like the raw power and energy.

I also enjoy listening to Thile and Steffey style stuff played super cleanly with a ton of notes.

If learning double stops are the keystone to Monroe style, what is the keystone to Steffey style?

Learning arpeggios has been a great starting point for all styles...but still leaves my solos on notey stuff sounding formulaic.

Should I start by getting better at playing straight melody lines? If I'm in a jam I find it much easier to sound decent playing Monroe style than to try to find the melody and embellish it, but I KNOW that in time I need to get better at finding perfect melody lines.

THANKS!

PS- I don't think there is a simple answer to this question...I'm just curious to hear your thoughts. I suppose jumping on tabledit and learning as many Steffey breaks is the best place to start!

[David L]

One good way to improve your improvising is scat singing. Sing do-do-do or whatever you want, but find interesting melodies. If you can't find interesting,creative melodies without playing your instrument, how can you expect to do it while playing. You won't just fall back into the patterns your fingers already know.

[JeffD]

I don't know how to name styles. I don't (consciously) emulate anyone in particular. When I take a break I play the melody or something close to it, with some double stops and tremolo. If I do make a melodic excursion, it is with the tune firmly in mind: the tunes landing points are my landing points and the tune's chords are my chords.

[Jordan Ramsey]

I think you got part of it in your post script... transcribe and learn as many solos as you can from each player, and then memorize and internalize those solos to a level that you are able to incorporate the individual vocabularies into your improvisation. Simple to describe with a handful of words, but this could be a lifetime of work (even focusing on just one of these players).

Another huge aspect to think about is tone production. Monroe, Steffey, and Thile all have really different right hand approaches. It would be very hard to sound like Monroe if you're using the pick placement and angle that Thile uses. Or hard to sound like Steffey if you're playing flat to the strings and back toward the bridge like Monroe, etc.... Even if you're playing the exact same notes, it won't sound like those players. If you want to accurately emulate, you have to think about tone production.

Food for thought, hope that helps.

[AlanN]

Another aspect of individual styles is how the pickers sequence the notes they play. Adam frequently uses a pattern of open strings against fretted notes to get a sort of laddered approach to his solos; he will ascend on a given string with interspersed open notes on that string. You can hear it on Big Mon off Young Mando Monsters and East Tennessee Blues from Grateful, all done within the flow of the tune and with his clean attack and strong right hand. It is very individualistic.

[danielpatrick]

Hey man! You are definitely heading in the right direction by knowing that there is a significant difference in the three players. It may seem obvious to some but a lot of people don't really pickup on those things!

I really second what Jordan says. There is really no magic way to make it happen. The best thing is to sit down with one tune that you feel really "sounds" like what you want to play like and sit down and pick it apart. And go from there. One lick at a time!

That's what helped me. It can be really challenging at first but after a while, you will hear something and know exactly what and where they are playing. Plus you will be developing your ear and with that hopefully your tone as well.

Good luck on your journey, it will be awesome!

daniel

[Mandoplumb]

IMHO. The root of all breaks is the melody. Ive known players that learn a few riffs and runs and can take a break on any song. The problem is it sounds like a few riffs and runs, the melody is what makes the break. If you can't play the melody you can't embellish it. Just my 2cents worth

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'm firmly in the Herschel Sizemore / John Resichman camp in my stylistic approach,mainly for the same reason the HS gives in his tuition DVD. Herschel says that he couldn't play in the style of Bill Monroe, because he didn't have the wrist strength for all the down strokes that BM uses. It looks easy,but i've tried to emulate BM's style in some of his solos,& it's wrist breaker at times.
Bill Monroe had his 'other' style,the one that Herschel Sizemore names as his 'Fiddle' style,which if that's the case, means much more single string work,up & down strokes with some tremolo & double stops thrown into the mix. That's the style that most of the players i listen to play, & that includes Herschel Sizemore himself / John Reischman / Adam Steffey / Chris Thile / Emory lester & many others. I do think that many players do try to use some of Bill Monroe's style in some of his tunes,mainly because played any other way,they'd cease to become what they are - 'Classics'.
In my playing,i play much more of the 'Fiddle' style as HS called it,but if i play a Monroe tune,i always strive to ''play it the way Bill did'',as much out of respect for his 'stylistic legacy' as anything. Having some variations in one's style is a good thing,but one might end up getting a bit stylistically confused & try to stuff all the styles into one tune,not a good thing,
Ivan

[farmerjones]

I don't think "style." In any given tune, if I'm given a break, I try to serve the tune/song. In other words, I play the melody as best I can. If I'm given a second break, it gets everything I know. That changes moment to moment. You can't remember everything all the time.
I like the idea of building a vocabulary, or arsenal, of technique(s). It's OK to "channel" or imitate somebody you like, because in the moment, nobody exactly duplicates anybody else, short of twins playing the same model instrument, same strings and pick.

[AlanN]

You mean like these twins? I bet they just 'kill' Steffey style

[UsuallyPickin]

Investigate the Dave Peters book of mandolin transcriptions for sale at Elderly Music ......... pick up a program named The Amazing Slowdowner for your computer and work some solos out a measure at a time....... over time you will begin to understand the stylistic differences and incorporate them into your soloing ....... Or you could throw everything over and go to Berklee School of Music for a few years ....... Patience ....... R/

[jshane]

One good way to improve your improvising is scat singing. Sing do-do-do or whatever you want, but find interesting melodies. If you can't find interesting,creative melodies without playing your instrument, how can you expect to do it while playing. You won't just fall back into the patterns your fingers already know.

This is almost exactly right... I would modify the first sentence to be, "The only way to really improvise is to first be able to create interesting melodies without your instrument, and to then, second, be able to PLAY those melodies, on the fly, on your instrument."

and then tag on the sentence,

"Everything else is just stringing together pre-formulated licks."

It sounds harsh, but I really think it is true, and I also feel that it is pretty easy to tell the difference between formulaic playing and true improvisation. Is improvisation hard? Yeah. Is it worth it? Personally, I think so.

[Pete Martin]

transcribe and learn as many solos as you can from each player, and then memorize and internalize those solos to a level that you are able to incorporate the individual vocabularies into your improvisation.

This!!

[Mandoplumb]

Jshane you got it 100%right!! IMHO

[chris storz]

Along with the scat singing suggestion, I would add take some voice lessons if you do not already sing. You don't have to get good enough to knock em dead at Carnegie Hall, just good enough to hit pitches reasonably well. As Joe Satriani told many a guitar student, "If you can sing it, you can play it."