What an incredible day! Unknown Loar Mandola found

[lenf12]

The mandola is not for sale. It is going to be part of my collection to be sold at auction upon my death. Along with a collection of similar Loar creations.

So, how old are you Gary??

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Jeff Mando]

you hooked me too. I still don't see any humor in your post. maybe somebody will explain it to me.

I see your point. I felt the same way, at first, because I wanted it to be true that an unknown Loar was discovered (at this late date). The "humor" is a type of prank, a very skilled one and one that can ONLY be used on April Fool's Day (April 1st each year). Some people don't like to be pranked or "punk'd" or scared or caught off guard--many youtube videos attest to this--most people laugh--but, some come out swingin'!

I've told this story before on this forum. At the height of the vintage guitar price frenzy at the Arlington, Texas show, a very known dealer "presented" a 1959 Les Paul Standard on his table with no price or any other info. All the experts loved it and it was the talk of the show. On the last day of the show, the dealer let everybody know that it was a fake, down to the serial number, aged finish, checking, etc. Of course, all the parts were original 50's parts and very hard to find, included an original case. Basically the "wood" was the fake part. The experts were mad, because he basically called them idiots for not seeing through it. This can happen when prices get into the $200K plus area. Well, guess what? The guitar sold that day for who knows what, as a reproduction. I can pretty much guarantee, the next time it sells, it will be as an ORIGINAL and for big money.

[Spruce]

I can pretty much guarantee, the next time it sells, it will be as an ORIGINAL and for big money.

'Bursts have their tells too, especially when you start taking them apart...
Which anyone would do before plunking down that kind of coin, no?...
(A friend just made me a '59 Les Paul, so I've kinda been into these lately).



But do we think there are mandolins out there masquerading as Loars?
I'm thinking "no way", but would love to hear stories otherwise...

[Jeff Mando]

'Bursts have their tells too, especially when you start taking them apart...
Which anyone would do before plunking down that kind of coin, no?...
(A friend just made me a '59 Les Paul, so I've kinda been into these lately).



But do we think there are mandolins out there masquerading as Loars?
I'm thinking "no way", but would love to hear stories otherwise...

My point is that the guitar passed all the "tells" and this was in the eyes of the people who have written books on the subject, consulted potential buyers, worked for Gibson, etc., i.e., you would know their names.......

As far as mandolins masquerading as Loars, it would follow that we wouldn't know, would we? Because nobody would be talking if it were that good, and they would have to give the money back.

An expert's opinion is just that, an opinion. If ten experts looked at it and nine pronounced it genuine, what did the other expert see? Interesting stuff. But, it's not like a hung jury. Most buyers consult an expert, then make their purchase. What if somebody was happy with their purchase for 30 years, then the Loar turned out to be fake? Totally possible, based on increased knowledge and sharing, due to the internet and sites like MC. Food for thought, at the very least.

[Bertram Henze]

There may come a time when people will deny that Lloyd Loar ever existed and claim that his name was just a marketing fad of Gibson's, that all his signatures were faked by talented employees trained for that purpose, that his photos really show the granddad of one anonymous shipping employee and that all his designs were really created by a team of anonymous marketing department employees. The view of these people will be known as A-Loarism.

[testore]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lloyd Loar gets way too much credit. He WAS just a marketing arm for Gibson. Aside from his design changes he was not a builder. The enormous March 31st batch shows, in my mind, that he was only used as a commercial gimmick. It doesn't seem possible to finish all those instruments on that day. Of course not. He signed labels well in advance and nothing more. He didn't inspect all of them and he certainly wasn't loooking over the building process daily. And don't forget Vivitone! That MUST be considered when summing up Loar.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I'll add that this is as good of a "tribute piece" as is possible. Gary deserves the utmost respect for his incredible attention to detail here.

I will also add that I was fooled for a short while. I did consider April 1, but he had started the thread the day before.

Let's talk a bit about being "fooled". When presented with "Is it real or is it Memorex", the truth will always shine through.

But, in the few cases where I was fooled, or at least temporarily fooled, the situation is always presenting itself as "no reason not to believe". That is where you can get burned.

Gary presented his situation with.."Looked what walked in the door"

Randy Wood fooled me one time with "Look at this Loar and let me know what you think about the finish one the back". I have no reason to intently examine the whole da!n mandolin. I looked at the back and told him the finish looked worked on. I guess it was since the whole mandolin was fake. But it was dressed in original parts in an original case.

"Original parts in an original case.".....that plays a part in this exercise too.

So...good one Mr. Vessel

[Darryl Wolfe]

BTW...the "The Gibson" is just a shade too thick....and there is a slight too F5ish/not weird enough looking to the scroll. Haha...seriously, great job. PS...Randy Wood has awesome H5 bridges.

[goaty76]

Darryl,

What do think about the tailpiece engraving?

Phil

[Andrew B. Carlson]

BTW...the "The Gibson" is just a shade too thick....and there is a slight too F5ish/not weird enough looking to the scroll. Haha...seriously, great job. PS...Randy Wood has awesome H5 bridges.

That's what I thought, although not enough to call him out. The H5 scroll has weird proportions. This one is not as weird. Looks better in my opinion though.

[testore]

Thank you Darryl.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Darryl,

What do think about the tailpiece engraving?

Phil

Close. 9 out of 10.

It is hard to find anyone who can do it right..and they varied. It is a personal art and each persons work looks different too.

The artists "eye" leads them to do things incorrectly too..because it looks better to them

In this case/TP...minor things are
overall engraving a tad too high on the TP
strokes are a bit too all the same...needs a little more deep/shallow line contrast
zig zag not close enough to the edge

These are extremely minor...I made these comments before searching out a photo
..ha

[Darryl Wolfe]

Here's one of the best I've had done. It suffers from the exact same symptoms

[Capt. E]

Apparently Gibson was building way too many mandolins during LL's tenure there. The market for mandolins was collapsing: witness LL and a number of employees being laid off in early 1925 and the production numbers taking a dive. It is why Gibson mandolins after LL got more rare. I wonder a bit if we are entering another crash time. Somewhere I heard Gibson thought hard about not building custom mandolins after the big Nashville flood, but apparently decided it was too important a part of their history.

To quote Abe: "You can fool all the people some of the time..."

[Glassweb]

now this may be the first time i've ever been fooled on a Loar instrument. this is VERY impressive!

[Spruce]

now this may be the first time i've ever been fooled on a Loar instrument.

You hope...

[Marvino]

With these "Loar" copies that have been made through the years, do the builders have something hidden, or something on label to specify it is a copy?

[jim simpson]

Many did put labels in indicating a copy, some did not. The Chris Warner copy I once owned had the Chris' copy label inside.

[jim simpson]

This reminded me of the Bill's Loar copy Gary made about 9 years ago for RichieK. I was fortunate to see and play it when fresh. It was impressive.

[testore]

Played it yesterday next to the first Loar Mandola known. It was very close tonally, and felt the same in the hand. That was a very good sign.

[Spruce]

Gonna beat it up a little more?
I think the vibe would benefit from it, especially with "that" case...
A little more pic and p'head wear, maybe some scroll wear?

Does the case stink good?

[testore]

No, less is more sometimes. I could do a little more but you know, that one bad move looks worse than one that never happened.

[Spruce]

Yeah, Teles are a little more forgiving...

[fatt-dad]

does the builder typically pencil his/her name under the top of these tribute instruments?

It is a fine-looking mandola for sure!

f-d

[Spruce]

does the builder typically pencil his/her name under the top of these tribute instruments?

Some violin makers are embedding a metal tag in the neckblock that will show up on an X-ray...
I'm sure Gary know of other schemes...