Freezing when it's my turn to play

[Ron McMillan]

*Not to be confused with another thread about getting 'hot'*

My problem is I learn melodies and licks and phrases alone until I can play them fluently - but whenever I'm in the company of other musicians and someone gives me the nod, I freeze up. All my hard-acquired knowledge and fluency disappears at the first hint of that nod, and I get flustered and end up feeling like I've made a fool of myself.

I know the answer must be more and more practice, probably involving lots of scales and arpeggios - and I'm working on those.

Has anyone else encountered these embarrassing freeze-up moments, and if so, how did you overcome them? Ultimately I really want to be able to enjoy playing in the company of others, and if possible, to be able to improvise even to a minor degree. But at the moment that feels like a distant dream.

rm

[Randy Linam]

Do you have problems with public speaking? If so, your fear of playing in public may be a carry-over. You may benefit from reading Dale Carnegie's books "The Art of Public Speaking" and "How to Develop Self Confidence and Influence People by Public Speaking." A company I worked for some years ago sent me to a Dale Carnegie training class and it was WONDERFUL. At the beginning of the class there were adults who had extreme problems with just standing and giving their names to the class. At trainings end, the same people were speaking extemporaneously as though they had been doing it their entire life. Hope this helps.

Randy

[Ron McMillan]

Thanks for the tip, but I don't generally shy from doing things in front of others; in another life I was an English teacher, and that sometimes involved standing up in front of seventy students at a time. I suspect that I already know what I need: practice, practice and more practice. But I wonder if others managed to get past that 'freezing' stage, and, if so, what they concentrated on to achieve that.

[Spruce]

...but whenever I'm in the company of other musicians...

Try underplaying...

Sometimes "freezing" is caused by playing too hard (because that's what you think you think you need to do sometimes when playing with others, especially after the hot banjo solo), which is not something that you do when you practice, right?...

So-ooo, try to play in the same dynamic as when you practiced...
Worked for me...

[Steve Sorensen]

Keep putting yourself in that position. Laugh when it crashes and repeat.

Steve

[Peter Coronado]

Great advice here already. I find that playing music with other people is a skill in itself. Woodshedding is certainly important but experience interacting with other players has to be learned, too. Nerves can have an effect certainly. Even if nerves aren't a factor, there are many other factors; when to start, when to stop, listening to someone else in addition to yourself, mind wandering, your volume relative to the group, group tempo and so on. It can be easy to be too self critical. "I play that tune perfectly at home but I blew it at the group today." Steve hit the nail on the head. Laugh it off, learn what you can and try it again next time.

[bigskygirl]

Are you nervous or just have trouble jumping in when its your turn? If it's the latter I recommend an app called iRealPro, or use some other band in a box type program and set the song to repeat and practice getting in and out of the breaks when you practice by yourself.

I've been going to more jams lately and it is difficult playing with others, they may not be playing in time, on key, the same song....whatever, so that adds to an already stressful situation.

[ksj]

I have the same issue. The above is good advice. You might also consider an instructor that does jam type lessons as well. I just started with that type and can already tell it's a different world, but a better one...

[GKWilson]

Hi Ron I've felt your pain. In the 60's I played in a few Rock bands and we played some pretty big houses and
even a few stadiums. Then when I started playing the mandolin I did all the due diligence and put in the long
hours of practice. But, went to a few jams and froze.
I suggest finding a good guitar player, if you don't already know one. Tell him your problem and invite him over for
pizza and beer. Make the jamming fun. If this works out invite another musician, then another or two. Soon you'll
be having to much fun to worry about any mistakes you, or your friends make.
If this isn't possible, as Steve says above, keep at it. And remember it's for the fun of it.
Gary

[Petrus]

I feel the same way. I do occasional public speaking and lead gatherings with a small circle of friends and I'm okay if I can stand off to the side and not look at anyone while I play. At a folk fest it was all I could do to bring a mandolin with me and find a shady tree off away from the main group of people ... I sat down and spent way more time tuning it up than necessary before attempting a few snippets of tunes which I played so softly I doubt anyone else could hear. One step at a time, that's the key.

BTW, I get the "hot" thing. It's common sense that you're going to get heated up when you're engaging in fairly vigorous activity, especially around other people where the nervousness factor is in play. It's a trivial observation really. Slow down when you can and pace yourself; you don't have to put your whole body into it if you maintain awareness of what your hands are doing.

[metrognome]

It might be worthwhile to simulate playing with others at home by playing along with recordings of the same material at home until it feels natural to come in. Also, what Spruce said about underplaying is right on too (right now I'm thinking of Neil Young playing a one-note solo or Jimmy Vaughn "soloing" by playing the rhythm part louder!).

The key is to get to the point where coming in is no big deal. If possible get yourself so delighted with what you have worked up in the woodshed that you're eager for the chance to come in at the jam session.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Ron - IMHO,it's usually caused by too much thinking about what you're going to do instead of getting on with it & doing it. & i fully understand the situation. When i first began playing banjo with the band i got together,when we played any gig my thoughts would race around like a cat with a thistle up it's a** !. After the first couple of numbers i'd calmed down to the point where i could play as easily as i could at home. Again IMHO,we're being put on the spot,we don't want to louse up & we 'overthink' what we're going to do,which causes a mental block & we end up doing nothing. It's an art in itself to learn to play with a free mind. I still have the some of same problem today when improvising. If i just let things run naturally,i'm usually ok,but if i begin thinking of what to put into a break,i'll loose it.
The advice of finding another musician to practice with is sound. One other thing,try not to care what the 'others' think about your playing. As long as you're playing well = ''the right notes in the right place at the right tempo'',that's all there is to it & you're ability to do just that will improve with practice. When i go to my local Folk club,i'm a Bluegrass musician in the midst of mainly Irish folk music players - i simply do my best & the other guys give me credit for it,
Ivan

[yankees1]

Yep, very common when you first begin playing and it took a long time for me to even begin to overcome this ------------but I did ! The only way to overcome this is to keep playing in front of and with other musicians. Keep at it and you will overcome !

[TheOne-N-OnlyHomer]

I can't speak much on this but I have a similar problem, I tend to "choke" when I'm in front of others, even my wife, I don't think the key is more practice so much as it is getting out of your own head and basically trying to "forget" anyone is around and play like your playing by yourself. It helps to play in front of others more. I was proud of myself for not choking more than I did at the musci store the past few weekends, and I still choked up, just not as much as usual.

[almeriastrings]

Hi Ron - IMHO,it's usually caused by too much thinking about what you're going to do instead of getting on with it & doing it

+1 and then some.

I personally don't think arpeggios and scales help solve this... but practicing the tunes you are going to perform until you know them back to front does. So does 'crashing' and learning 'recovery skills'. Knowing you can keep going and recover does a lot to help build confidence, which is what this is all about. I performed a new tune for the first time in front of an audience this week... made a slight mistake, but just carried on as if nothing had happened. Most of the time, folks out there won't even notice. Not being worried by making mistakes is also important. The more you perform, the easier it gets.

[Nashville]

All good advice here. To reiterate:

1) know song inside & out; practice transitioning from rhythm parts to melody spots
2) practice with some kind of backing tracks; practice transitioning from rhythm parts to melody spots
3) find 1 guitar player, ply with pizza & beer; practice transitioning from rhythm parts to melody spots
4) add other band members; practice transitioning from rhythm parts to melody spots

After that you can tackle melody variations and improvisation.

Playing with others is an art unto itself.

[Ron McMillan]

All good input, thanks

[Astro]

Lots of great insights here.

Its the occasionalness that is the key word here. Subject yourself to it as often as you can. Its hard to find time but hit jams or open mics 3 or 4 times a week. After a month or two of that you will be fine.

Lets face it, it is extremely anxiety provoking to be put on the spot like this. 1,2,3--perform--spot light is on you. Some people seem to thrive under this attention but most of us cringe and freeze. To overcome this, it takes repeated exposure. Hard to believe but not freezing is a practicable skill.

[f5joe]

Personally, I use "poser".

[Rob Beck]

Hello Ron, I agree with the under-playing idea. I used to describe the problem as "whenever I get in front of an audience my fingers swell to twice their normal size and the frets all squeeze twice as close together" - and there's not a lot of room to start with on a mandolin Choosing an easier part than you are capable of is a huge confidence booster, you will enjoy the performance more and it means you will play it well.

[Londy]

You know...it's kinda like a golf game. Your turn to tee off while everyone stands by watching. The key is to relax and just play like you have practiced. We need to get up to the tee box and just do it...not practice and think about all the things we are supposed to do. This is when we fail. Let practice be practice and play be play for they are not the same. The more we do this, relax and enjoy making music the better we become. Start a meet up at your place and play every week like this just for fun. Then you will get used to group dynamics a bit more. My two cents.

[Pick&Grin]

Hey Ron!
Lots of great answers here to an excellent question to which so many of us can relate. I remember all too well what I called my "wooden fingers." Whenever I got the nod, my fingers would stiffen up and playing with any fluency became impossible.

I know the answer must be more and more practice, probably involving lots of scales and arpeggios - and I'm working on those.

These will be of infinite help for you, but as others have mentioned, not necessarily in overcoming this hurdle. What got me through my wooden-fingers phase was not practicing alone, but getting myself in a band. With a laid-back group of friends, it was okay when my fingers froze up. Practicing as you are is great, but it might not be the right kind of practice for this particular challenge.

Has anyone else encountered these embarrassing freeze-up moments

The key here--and easier said than done--is not to let yourself get too embarrassed, or at least for us to not be able to laugh at ourselves in the midst of it. Everyone, even the pros, make slip ups, and you can be sure they notice it more than anyone. Remember, nobody, but nobody, is our greatest critic but ourselves. Try not to get flustered and remember that others aren't paying you $50k for your part in the jam: it's simply to enjoy music with each other. When I inevitably mess up, I think of what Miles Davis once said: "When I hit a wrong note, I'll just play it again to develop it into the solo." Not bad advice, and shows that even he was making mistakes throughout his career.

Thanks for the post!

[UsuallyPickin]

That's why a good kick off is soooo important....... get those first few notes in and you are off and playing. You mentioned working on scales and arpeggios. Playing those chord tones, flatting and sliding 3rds and 5ths and adding the flatted 7th will keep your playing in the pocket tonally. So after that it's rhythm and syncopation. Keeping it simple with a flourish at the end ... a well memorized tag lick ..... when the first and last notes ore the most remembered of any solo.. as for the rest Tiny Moore said "You're only one fret away from a note that will work" ... the other thing about those pesky scales and arpeggios is that when you are playing a well memorized piece and all of a sudden that brain cell takes a nap there is still something under your fingers to play ... Yes Wooden Finger Syndrome WFS is a common but not fatal ailment ...... and even rears it's ugly head when you are well past your early stages of playing .... R/

[Austin Bob]

Playing live music is a different skill than practicing music at home. Sure, you need to do a LOT of practicing before you attempt to join a jam or a group, but no amount of practice can substitute playing with others live.

You need to learn to listen to the whole group at once, learn the nuances of other players rhythms, how to come in different sections, how to echo when someone else does a solo, etc. All of this is done in real time, and its' very easy for our brains to get overloaded and freeze up.

My advice is just to keep at it, and get more experience. Maybe on your next two or three jams, just sit back and play the chords. Don't try to jump in and play lead until you're ready.

It get's easier, but it's always still a challenge. In the end, I think that's why I like playing live so much. Finally, unless you are a pro playing with other pros who put in a lot of practice working out the various parts of each song, it's never absolutely perfect. That's why we laugh it off it the song is great, but there's a train wreck at the end. Don't sweat the small stuff, we all make mistakes.

[Joey Anchors]

This is a great topic and lots of great helpful info has been said.

I too am nervous about playing mandolin in front of other people or playing solo to be more exact.

What is funny is I have/had no problem jumping on stage playing upright bass even if I didn't know the tune.