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Thread: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

  1. #1

    Default 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    i posted this elsewhere so i am just going to replicate it exactly as i did there here. if anyone has any advice as i go along please chime in. thanks!

    I just want to preface this with I haven't worked with any kind of wood, glue, etc. since probably High School 20+ years ago so please, please bare with me

    I was going to try to wait until after I was done with the build to post up what I wound up doing but of course as I get into this I have more questions than answers so here goes. Hopefully someone will be kind enough to chime in and help me out as I go.

    My build is an Irish Bouzouki kit. Not many people selling them online that I could find so one can pretty easily find out where I purchased it from if need be.

    I have some pics as I go along on my regular camera but for now I have a couple of question pic from my phone to start with...

    1.
    When I lay the sides down on a flat surface 1 side is straight but the other is bowed as shown in the pic. Should I worry about this now and try to sand it flat or should I just go ahead and glue to the tailblock and sand it later then glueing the top/bottom?


    2.
    The tailblock and the sides don't match up fully. As you can see in the pic the end do not touch freely. Do i worry about this or should i just glue it and make sure i have 2 clamps on each half of the tailblock/side? does it matter if the joint doesn't fully match up and there is some space at the end?


    3.
    the bottom edge came slightly crushed in the packaging as shown in the pic. this should not matter right. i will wind up taking off this excess when i join it to the heel right?

  2. #2

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    here's what i started with:

    some basic tools. i'm sure i will need more as i go along


    what comes in the box:


    thankfully they label which parts belong where in some cases. also in this kit they had already drilled out the tuner holes in the headstock. i noticed on another older build online they did not.
    for the back they labelled which side was inside which was a nice touch also.


  3. #3

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    first off they have you mark the center line of the headstock all the way down through the neck. beyond that you can shape the headstock whatever way you want.

    it comes squared out


    i rounded it out by sawing off the top edge angles and then rounding them off on a belt sander.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    next i ran into the issue i posted originally in this thread up top. i wound up sanding them out. I was able to sand out the sides relatively flat against a flat surface. i had to sand down the tail block also to match. a couple of things i learned in this process.
    1. rough sanding is much easier with a belt sander. used 1 upside down in a vice and it worked out great.
    2. sanding is an art unto itself. a few times i thought i was done just to want a little more and then that last time made things off center and i had to start over again. sanding is like sculpting to me. constantly evolving and revising.
    3. you can never have enough clamps.

    so the next step was gluing the sides to the tail block. i wiped off what excess glue i could and will sand down the rest later.



  5. #5

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    next up is to glue the sides into the neck. there is a cutout on the neck for the soundboard so you need to incorporate it by sliding it into place under the neck with some wax paper seperating so as to not glue the soundboard. that will come later. glue in the sides to the neck. clean up what glue you can and sand later. lots of sanding on this project lol.



  6. #6

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    so i'm left with something like this while it all dries.
    onto to kerfing....



  7. #7

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    i am doing the kerfing by hand. i don't recommend it lol. what a Pita. i marked all 1/4" and saw them by hand. then before i glue them in i put a little water on the cut side to make the wood more flexible.



    finally i glue it on and clamp it. i watched a video from blue creek who said that when gluing i should see wood through the glue otherwise if i only see glue i have too much which i followed. he also mentioned the wetting of the wood to make the kerfing more flexible when gluing in initially.

    one thing i think i missed which concerns me a little is i didn't put anything between the sides and the clamps. i hope they don't make an impression on the wood by the time i take them off. i won't be taking them off for 24 hours.



  8. #8

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    so the kerfing is done. hand sawing all 4 pieces took a bit of time and patience. i found i got a rhythm over time but by then i was halfway done anyways. also the cuts on handsaw cannot be as uniform as using say a bandsaw or electric saw with a jig; especially for depth and angle of lines i would think. afterwards i sanded down the edges to make them flat with the sides and remove any excess glue that was squeezed out during the kerfing glue process. as suggested in the instructions i used a long wood block with sandpaper on 1 end to try to keep the sanding level and flat across the board. i thought i read or watched a video somewhere that said for kerfing to not actually touch the ends (tail block and neck in this case) so i cut 1/4" off on each piece to accomodate for that.


    next up was to mark the inside sound hole for the bracing. i believe out of the box they are suggesting a simple x brace.


    so for the brace first you glue the slots together. i believe i made a mistake here and i just clasp together and glued however the joint is not flush on the side that will touch the sound hole. by the time i figured it out the glue was dry so either i will have to loosen the glue, sand down the insert so it's flush, or sand down the bottom of the brace to make it all level. not sure which would be the preferred method to do this.


    the x brace itself comes squared so i finally got to try a wood chisel for the 1st time. the wood was easy to work with and between that and some hand sanding i was able to thin out the brace a little while keeping most of the height. not sure for bouzouki if i should do tapered, scalloped, etc. but for now i just thinned out with full height.

  9. #9
    Butcherer of Songs Rob Zamites's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    I did a kit like yours from Music Makers (harpkit.com) - I did their Renaissance Guitar, but had them modify it for 8 strings. You can see my thread here. Looks like you're making great progress!

    I was going to do another kit, but I've just taken the plunge and am doing a cittern from scratch instead. I'm addicted to building.

    If you have any questions, ask!
    =============================
    Apollonio Acousto-electric bouzouki (in shop)
    Mixter 10 string mandola (still waiting 2+ yrs)
    Unknown brand Mandocaster (on the way!)
    =============================
    "Doubt begins only at the last frontiers of what is possible." -- Ambrose Bierce

  10. #10

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Sanding is, indeed, an art. Good start.

  11. #11
    Butcherer of Songs Rob Zamites's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    Sanding is, indeed, an art. Good start.
    Don't you ever sleep?

    =============================
    Apollonio Acousto-electric bouzouki (in shop)
    Mixter 10 string mandola (still waiting 2+ yrs)
    Unknown brand Mandocaster (on the way!)
    =============================
    "Doubt begins only at the last frontiers of what is possible." -- Ambrose Bierce

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  13. #12

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    thanks guys. it is that kit from them Rob

    so i glued the x-brace on however i have some questions maybe someone is willing to answer.

    1. usually when i see a build the braces are snug tight to the inside edges of the side. as you can see in my case they are short and do not run all the way to the edge. how does this affect everything? do the braces have to run all the way to the edge (see pic 1).

    2. the instructions have the edge run out 7" from center line. as you can see in pic 2 naturally the bent sides are about 1/8" in from the 7" line. does this small amount matter? if it does how can i keep it bent out far enough. just cut a piece of scrap wood slightly larger and fit it inside? if i do that once the glue dries on the top and i pull the scrap out will it pull back into original shape and just rip the glue apart from the top?

    pic 1


    pic 2

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  15. #13

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    You're in good shape there. Ideally the bracing should be tucked under the lining, but I would run with it on this build. 1/8" won't change anything too drastic on an instrument this size.

  16. #14
    Butcherer of Songs Rob Zamites's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    The bracing on my top was the same, short of the lining. Doesn't seem to have made any real difference at all.
    =============================
    Apollonio Acousto-electric bouzouki (in shop)
    Mixter 10 string mandola (still waiting 2+ yrs)
    Unknown brand Mandocaster (on the way!)
    =============================
    "Doubt begins only at the last frontiers of what is possible." -- Ambrose Bierce

  17. #15
    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    I think that top is laminated, so the extra support from tucking the braces into the lining isn't needed.
    Tom

    "Feel the wood."
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  18. #16
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Specs on this kit say solid mahogany top, laminated cherry back and sides. So the fact that it's a hardwood top means the edge bracing probably isn't criticsl.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

  19. #17
    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Thanks, Don. They must have changed it. The description used to sound like the top was solid, but it was in fact laminated.
    Tom

    "Feel the wood."
    Luthier Page: Facebook

  20. #18

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Thanks everyone! I'll continue as is
    How can I tell if the top is lam? Could it be 1 ply since it is thin? If so how to tell if it's lam vs solid? Just by seeing if the wood grain runs through or something?

  21. #19
    Butcherer of Songs Rob Zamites's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Harpkit's bouzouki, Ren Guitar and Dakota series kits are solid tops.
    =============================
    Apollonio Acousto-electric bouzouki (in shop)
    Mixter 10 string mandola (still waiting 2+ yrs)
    Unknown brand Mandocaster (on the way!)
    =============================
    "Doubt begins only at the last frontiers of what is possible." -- Ambrose Bierce

  22. #20

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilo123 View Post
    Thanks everyone! I'll continue as is
    How can I tell if the top is lam? Could it be 1 ply since it is thin? If so how to tell if it's lam vs solid? Just by seeing if the wood grain runs through or something?
    Looking at the pictures of the outside and inside of the top, it looks to be solid. Look at the edge of the top. You can see plies, if they are there.

  23. #21

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    thanks everyone. i believe the top was solid also. i can tell on the back if i look at it from the side it is i guess you would call it 3ply. there are 2 veneers same wood on outsides and a different lighter wood inside. the seller chimed on and let me know that i did not need to stretch the sides anymore either nor do i need to extend the braces on this one so that was all confirmed in addition to the great responses on here.

    1. so moving forward i glued the top today (pic 1). made a makeshift plank to be able to clamp everything down and nailed near the headstock to keep the neck straight/aligned with the body.

    2. i also glued the braces to the back (pic 2). the back braces were noted not to clamp to anything flat as it is curved. i put the flat edge of the braces lined up against a ruler and noticed that the braces themselves were indeed curved. is this normal in guitar world also? are the back braces supposed to be cut/edged curved and have something of a bowed back?

    3. i am concerned about my glue job...as you can see in (pic 3) there is some space between back/side even though i am clamping them. quite possibly the sides were not level enough and as a result there is some space when gluing. does wood glue expand to fill gaps? my understanding is wood glue looks to attract to wood instead of fill gaps like say epoxy would. if when the wood is dry not all points have contact do i need to somehow pull the top off, re-sand until more level, and re-glue again? or could i patch with some epoxy or something for the part that is not fully stuck together?

    4. also i know for some glues you should rough up the surfaces to be connected for there to be good contact. is this the same for this wood? for instance i roughed up the bottom of the braces with a blade so hoping it would help them adhere better to the back/sides. was this ok to do this or a bad idea?

    5. gluing question: rather than wiping glue on wood all the time with my fingers how does everyone apply glue to various wood surfaces? i thought i saw a video of someone using a paint roller to apply glue to wood so i bought one. i figured the regular paint rollers are too soft and pieces would pull off with the glue so i found 1 that uses a harder plastic roller (pic 4) however upon trying to use it i found it was pulling off the glue as much as evenly spreading it out. i could not find any metal based roller end so i am not sure how people are using rollers or how they are applying glue other than finger/hand. maybe a brush? need something reusable though. any suggestions?

    pic 1


    pic 2


    pic 3


    pic 4

  24. #22

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    1. ok i tapered the braces off a bit more (pic 1) as suggested somewhere else since they will not run all the way to the end. i left a little bit on the end but i did shave them down quite a bit at the end.

    2. today i flipped over and glued the back (pic 2). again i see some spaces as i also noticed the back is bowed a little from gluing the angled bracing on which is normal i would think. hopefully the routing and binding will fix the space issue. i notice the spacing by where the tailblock is and i am gluing the whole tailblock so a little spacing there should be fine i would think. i bet my tailblock is not as level as i would like to believe and this may be causing the spacing issue. i did sand the sides and tailblock and had a level handy to make sure they leveled off but who knows.

    3. i have a lot of extra space around some parts of the sides from the top/back being oversized initially (pic 3). i understand that i will route this off when i route for the binding. my concern is i have never done this before so i hope that the router doesn't rip the top/back instead of clean cut and mess up everything. i got this router bit set http://www.harpkit.com/mm5/merchant....ory_Code=inlay
    and got the router suggested earlier in my previous post. i am hoping the rpm are fast enough that the sides cut cleanly and not rip apart. of course i will test the router and bit on practice wood quite a few times before trying on the real thing. any tips on routing binding would be appreciated! i see some youtube vids but nothing like some direct advice.

    pic 1


    pic 2


    pic 3

  25. #23
    Butcherer of Songs Rob Zamites's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Looking good!
    =============================
    Apollonio Acousto-electric bouzouki (in shop)
    Mixter 10 string mandola (still waiting 2+ yrs)
    Unknown brand Mandocaster (on the way!)
    =============================
    "Doubt begins only at the last frontiers of what is possible." -- Ambrose Bierce

  26. #24
    Registered User Colin Lindsay's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Amazing. I bow in deep respect to someone prepared to put this kind of effort in to making something beautiful. Thanks for the updates, keep us posted and of course I want to hear the finished product.
    "Danger! Do Not Touch!" must be one of the scariest things to read in Braille....

  27. #25

    Default Re: 1st Kit Build Irish Bouzouki

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Zamites View Post
    Looking good!
    Thanks Rob! i went through you're build thread and what a beast that was
    That bad boy looked like a giant compared to mine!
    Hope she's still playing well!

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