Microphone attached

[bluegrassdan]

I am by no means a pro but the odd time play on stage with a PA. I can never get comfortable with a mic up close to my mando. I feel better when I can move around. Is there any such thing as a clip on mic that doesn´t need a preamp and can go directly in to a PA like regular mics? If so can it be done on the cheap? Thanks folks

[almeriastrings]

I am by no means a pro but the odd time play on stage with a PA. I can never get comfortable with a mic up close to my mando. I feel better when I can move around. Is there any such thing as a clip on mic that doesn´t need a preamp and can go directly in to a PA like regular mics? If so can it be done on the cheap?

Audio Technica Pro 35


Audio Technica ATM350

There are a couple of lower priced options, but they might be harder to source in Canada. One is the SUPERLUX PRA-383D and the other the Thomann Ovid System (the latter is usually only found in Europe, though you might be able to track down a Superlux in the US/Canada).

All of thse do require a preamp, strictly speaking, of course but not a separate preamp. They go via XLR into the desk's preamp which also supplies them with phantom power.

[mandobassman]

If you want cheap, but still with pretty decent sound, try this.

http://www.radioshack.com/hands-free...l#.VMQlqsb3XYA

I have been using one for upright bass for the past three years and have had wonderful sound. I used one several years ago for mandolin and it sounded great then as well. Certainly it is not going to outperform more costly mics but it has several advantages. First, it is much less prone to feedback than other mics. The reason for this is the mics sensitivity is so low that it needs to be directly on top of the sound source to pick up sound. Clip it right in front of the mandolin F hole and it will pick up very little else other than the mandolin. It doesn't have as wide of a frequency range as other mics so, once again, less crispy treble response and less prone to feedback. Second, it's battery operated and the batteries last a long time. I've had a battery in my bass mic for over a year now. and Third, it's cheap. It can be bought at the normal price of $32 or as you can see in the link above, I just found out that it is on sale for $26. Cheap enough to try out and not lose much if it doesn't work out for you. And, cheap enough that if you do like it, you can buy a second for a backup.

I know there are those who will laugh at this suggestion, but I have use it for a long time and it works nicely. I discovered its' use for bass on a bass forum called Talk Bass. After a member suggested I try it, I did and had terrific results. Since then, after over 250 people responded to the thread and no less than 11 bass players started using one and have also had great success.

[Doug Edwards]

Quite pleased with my K&K Silver Bullet. Several ways to adhere to the mandolin and place the mic near or in the treble F hole. I use my Tone-Gard to anchor the mic cable and barely place the mic in he F hole.

[JeffJones]

I have been trying out this clip on condenser mic from Pyle.

Not the greatest brand name, but I have been pretty happy with the sound I am getting out of it. Especially, at ~1/3 the price($40) of most all the other comparable clip on condensers I have seen.

Details:
Pyle-Pro PMSAX1 Instrument/Saxaphone XLR Condenser Microphone
Manufacturer: PylePro
Prince: $40
Link: http://amzn.com/B003AQ1X7A

[Beanzy]

I use a Sony ECM-77 for the sound quality, but the bonus is it's really easy to mount on the sound hole using a rubber grip, and the pre-amp just slips into a pocket or velcro ties to a belt out of the way. You can pick them up fairly cheaply on ebay.

[Whittle]

This probably isn't the cheapest thing out there, but I've been intently looking at getting a Bartlett clip on mic for myself.

http://www.bartlettaudio.com/products/mandolin-mic

[foldedpath]

This probably isn't the cheapest thing out there, but I've been intently looking at getting a Bartlett clip on mic for myself.

http://www.bartlettaudio.com/products/mandolin-mic

I know that clip is padded, but personally I'd be very wary of anything mounted that way. With a wired clip-on microphone, there is always the possibility of stepping on the cable and pulling the mic off. I've done it once or twice, with my DPA 4099, and the rubber-coated carpenter jack just slips off the side of the instrument (very embarrassing, but no damage to mic or instrument). With something like this F-hole clip, I foresee potential damage to the instrument, if the cable was accidentally yanked hard enough to pull the clip off.

A direct lavalier-style clip might also cause some problems with handling noise. One of the nice things about gooseneck clip-on mics is they usually have decent isolation from handling noise, and more options for where the capsule is aimed.

Just a quick opinion based on what I can see of the design from the web site. It might work better than I think in practice.

[Beanzy]

A direct lavalier-style clip might also cause some problems with handling noise. One of the nice things about gooseneck clip-on mics is they usually have decent isolation from handling noise, and more options for where the capsule is aimed.

I was really head-scratching about this with the ecm77 when I first thought about using them. They have proper teeth on the grip which would be a horror to attach anywhere on wood. I came up with a couple of solutions which work. One is to get an elastic band and hook it over the points of the f hole with several twists to provide a grip through which you push the capsule to point at any angle needed. It's one of those quick and dirty solutions that work.

But I'm always a belt and braces type and can't help thinking it could still slip off, even though it never has yet. So I got some photo clip mountings clipped off the stand base and squashed the grip teeth on those to make them flat, then used heat shrink to give a rubber grip surface to the little spring-loaded jaws and the wire cable. This allows the normal lavallier mount to be attached to the wire and the soft gripper to be used in the fhole. That gives a nice low-profile mounting just above the level of the top but much less obtrusive than a goose neck mounting.

Another good mounting I came up with to help with feed-back is to poke a hole in a 22mm blind grommit and push the capsule through that. The grommit fits most circular parts of f holes and is flexible enough to squish to shape without problems. It then is pointing into the instrument and more directional as the rear is shielded by the rubber grommit. As it's for noisy situations I don't mind the slight sound difference from being on the inside of the instrument.

[mandobassman]

I used a lavalier type for a few years and it sounded great. I clipped it on the f hole with padding under the teeth so it wouldn't harm the finish. I ran the cord inside the body to a endpin jack so there was no handling noise and the cord was a heavy duty cable instead of the thin wire on th mic. Also, the battery was eliminated and used phantom power from the board.

[almeriastrings]

If considering using lav mics for this purpose, be careful, as there are several variables. The first is that as with other mics, pickup patterns vary and while both omni and cardiod types are common, hypercardiod patterns are quite rare (as seen in the DPA 4099). All of these can work well, however, provided you can get them into a "sweet spot", though omni's can be tricky on stage if you are anywhere near a monitor or the mains. Getting them into position is the difficult bit, as if you get them inside or too close to the 'F' holes it will substantially boost the low frequencies, and you may need some drastic EQ to reduce 'boom'. Ideally, a bit of 'air' between the mic and the instrument helps to get a more balanced sound (which is one reason why the DPA and AT type mounts contribute a lot to the end result). In addition, as foldedpath points out, anything in direct physical contact with the top is going to be prone to microphony and handling noise, bumps, etc. The better mounts include physical de-coupling and anti-vibration properties, which again help to obtain a nice clean signal free of subsonic rumble. Finally, the wiring... not all lav mics will be happy if you remove a battery and run 48v through them. Most are designed to work on 5-10v, not 48v. In many cases this requires a special adapter. Check this carefully, as if you get it wrong a rather large bang will be the one and only, and last, sound you ever get out of it.

FWIW, I think the AT's are very good indeed. Nice mounts, solid build, and high quality pro-grade microphones. The PRO 35 is fantastic value for the quality on offer. The DPA's are pretty much the ultimate in this area, and if you want the very best...

[pit lenz]

Very good points from almeriastrings here!

looking for an installed mic/pickup solution and didn't want to permanently attach one of my 4099s, I came up with this.
It's a Sennheiser ME-104 cardioid lavalier that I still had in the drawer on a (I think) Sony lapel clip. Padded the teeth of the clip so it wouldn't hurt the wood. I can turn the mic slightly into the soundhole or rather away from it, avoiding boominess.

No problems with body noise so far, mechanical insulation is pretty OK and the whole signal is being Hi-cut pretty much anyways.

Internal pickup is a K&K mando twin wired to the tip of an endpin jack, the mic is connected to ring, sleeve is common ground.
I feed it via a stereo jack cable to a Headways EDB-2 and can dial PU and mic separately.

If only my playing would meet the sound quality, since I´m just a rookie mando-player but a lifetime tinkerer….

[mandobassman]

That's pretty much the same thing I did with my Radio Shack mic. At the time I was using it in a very loud Top 40 Country band and the mic signal went to the house and I had a Shadow pickup that went to a stage amp. Pickup sounded awful but it only went to my ears and the mic going to the house sounded great. I also had the pickup and mic wired to a end pin jack. Set up worked perfect.

All of these suggestions are very good ones, but one of the things that has been overlooked is that the OP is looking for inexpensive. That's the beauty of the RS mic is that is sounds pretty darn good onstage and is VERY cheap.

[pit lenz]

All of these suggestions are very good ones, but one of the things that has been overlooked is that the OP is looking for inexpensive. That's the beauty of the RS mic is that is sounds pretty darn good onstage and is VERY cheap.

You're right, we might have lost it here…
It's good to hear that the RS omni mic works for you, I just thought an technical rather unexperienced player would be better off with a more directional mic.
Of course the DPAs might be a bit over the top here, but the Pro35 with it's great price value should really be considered….

[almeriastrings]

Regarding cost, if you are prepared to do some work on the mounting system (as Pit Lenz's excellent examples show), you can go on Ebay and find all kinds of "lapel mics" at all kinds of prices as a base for experiment. Obviously, those from AKG, Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Beyer and Sony are the best of the bunch, but some of the very cheap "no name" ones can be very good too. Surprisingly good, sometimes. You can find these for $5-10! It may not perform quite as well as an AT or DPA but at under $10 and an hour or two playing with mounts and wiring, you can't really complain..

[McIrish]

I've been using that same Radio Shack mic in my banjo. I first heard of it in an interview with Scott Avett. Works very well in the banjo and I would assume it would be good on a mandolin. You can't find a cheaper mic solution. I don't get a year out of the battery but too often I forget to turn off the preamp. doh!

If you want cheap, but still with pretty decent sound, try this.

http://www.radioshack.com/hands-free...l#.VMQlqsb3XYA

I have been using one for upright bass for the past three years and have had wonderful sound. I used one several years ago for mandolin and it sounded great then as well. Certainly it is not going to outperform more costly mics but it has several advantages. First, it is much less prone to feedback than other mics. The reason for this is the mics sensitivity is so low that it needs to be directly on top of the sound source to pick up sound. Clip it right in front of the mandolin F hole and it will pick up very little else other than the mandolin. It doesn't have as wide of a frequency range as other mics so, once again, less crispy treble response and less prone to feedback. Second, it's battery operated and the batteries last a long time. I've had a battery in my bass mic for over a year now. and Third, it's cheap. It can be bought at the normal price of $32 or as you can see in the link above, I just found out that it is on sale for $26. Cheap enough to try out and not lose much if it doesn't work out for you. And, cheap enough that if you do like it, you can buy a second for a backup.

I know there are those who will laugh at this suggestion, but I have use it for a long time and it works nicely. I discovered its' use for bass on a bass forum called Talk Bass. After a member suggested I try it, I did and had terrific results. Since then, after over 250 people responded to the thread and no less than 11 bass players started using one and have also had great success.