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Thread: Big Joe, Jackson Music & X -Braced MM

  1. #1
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    Rather than highjack a similar thread, I thought it best to start another!

    It was indeed a pleasure meeting Big Joe Vest at Jackson's Music in Winston-Salem on Saturday afternoon. Big Joe is truly a great guy and I guess it would be accurate to say that Joe is just "real people"! I'm sure I bored the heck out of him, but he didn't let on that I was. Thanks Joe!

    Also, a shameless plug for Jackson Music. Could not have been nicer, and I will certainly consider them for my next big purchase. Had a full line of Gibson mandolins and Mastertone banjos - best selection I have seen.

    Now for the good stuff. Joe brought two of his mandolins -a distressed Master Model and an X - braced Master Model. Yep - X - braced. Joe did not tell me not to mention it, nor did I take a vow of silence, so I guess it is OK to relay what Joe told me. He may want to fill in the blanks or correct anything I say - or totally deny this ever happened. Of course, many of you may already know about it and I may be way behind the curve, but here goes.

    Anyway, the "distressed" MM was a fabulous instrument. According to Joe, it's his favorite, and after playing it, I certainly understand why. He says the sound is almost indistinguishable from a Loar, and I could not argue with him about that. But it was the X - braced MM that got my attention. The instrument was finished in a monotone honey colored varnish - stunning in my opinion. The binding was tortoise, and in my opinion looks much better on this instrument than the Bibey. Just better contrast. No dots on the fingerboard.

    The bracing, according to Joe, intersects under the bridge (or close to it) for stability to keep the top from slumping, which is not uncommon on some X-braced instruments. I think Joe told me that they are going to build either ten or twenty of these instruments and they will probably cost somewhere north of 20K.

    I am not very good at describing the different sound of mandolins, but I will give it a shot. The X-braced sounds very clear and "sweet". I would describe the sound as my 1917 F-4 on "steroids". Outstanding volume - and just a week old! In contracts, the distressed MM had more of a "blended" sound. When you strummed a chord on the X-braced, it was like you heard individual strings, whereas, the "distressed" sounded like the strings "melded" together.

    What a fun day! Unfortunately, I missed Alan Bibey, but if you have an opportunity, you definitely should attend the Sam Bush clinic at First Quality in a couple of weeks.
    Linksmaker

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    Actually, it is an X braced MM with a fern headstock and an antique natural finish. Whether we will actually build any is up in the air. This is a prototype to see what interest there is and the reaction the community has to this product. I would be very interested to see the comments of those who saw and played it. I have wanted to try this project for a couple years. The bracing pattern is different from what is normally used. The concept was to give great balance and strength without the "woofiness" that seems to come with some X braced. We wanted to retain a Gibson sound but give a different range of tones with this instrument. The visuals were my idea just because I thought it would be cool. When the project was started we had no idea what the outcome would actually be. This project took 8 months from start to finsh. One has his hopes, but they can be as easily dashed as upheld. In this case, I have been more than pleased. It is one of the loudest mandolins I've ever heard and does have a sweet tone. You can certainly hear the varnish tone and the x bracing all at the same time. Personally, I am blown away with it.

    If you saw it or played it, please post your thoughts. After all, you may be the final voice in the decision whether to go ahead with this project.
    Have a Great Day!
    Joe Vest

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    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Well Big Joe..let's see some pictures...sounds like an interesting concept mandolin. There needs to be more experimenting, because the ultimate mandolin has not been built yet
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
    www.f5journal.com

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    Joe:

    You will remember that I did not want to give it back - and offered you $400 to take it off your hands!

    Personally, I like it as well as anything you make and the simple, but elegant, visuals only add to it. I look forward to others comments after more folks have had a chance to play it.
    Linksmaker

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    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Big Joe, I thought it was awesome! The visual appearance was the first thing I noticed. When I played it, I also thought it was the loudest mandolin I have ever played. Easy to play. The cool thing to me is that it still has the Gibson tone. Great job!!




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    Registered User mmukav's Avatar
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    BigJoe-----Pictures, pictures, pictures!!!

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    Mark Jones Flowerpot's Avatar
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    I've got nothing against X-braced mandolins per se, but... an X-braced MM? Hmmmm, it just doesn't seem right. It seems like a pretty big deviation from Charlie's vision, based on the principle that "you can't make 'em better than a Loar." I don't neccessarily ascribe to that axiom 100%, but Gibson's unwavering dedication to reproducing the "real thing" is what gives the MM's such major mojo. I'd be afraid that making an X-braced mando and calling it a MM would seriously dilute the great efforts to date. What, is an X-braced MM the next best thing -- to a Gilchrist, instead of a Loar? If it were up to me (and it ain't, so take it for what it's worth), I'd reserve the name Master Model for a faithful reproduction of a Loar era instrument, period, and preserve the strength of the name.

    That being said, I'm sure it's a wonderful instrument.

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    While I think the Charlie D. era mandolins are the best since the Loar era, I'm with Flowerpot on this one. Reserve the Master Model for the true reproduction of Loars. Experiment all you want, but in my opinion, this should be labeled differently, maybe a signature model. Let's see, maybe a McCoury Signature like his Gilchrist, or Compton Signature, etc.. Just my opinion and normally worth what you paid for it.

    Jim Watts

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    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    While at it, change the f-holes to an oval.

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    I also thought it was awesome, in sound first and looks second. If the cross-bracing brought out the sound, so be it. Call it whatever you want to.

  11. #11

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    I too thought it was an awesome mandolin! Great playability and tone. Would definitely, IMHO, go head to head with any Gilchrist I have played. Excellent mandolin.

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    I don't know much about mando's, since I'm a newbie. But the thing made me sound like I half way knew what I was doin.

    It had a good feel and I really liked how loud the thing was. And being only a young thang too.

    I guess for those that have things against the x bracing really needed to play the thing to understand.

    Big Joe, you ever decide to give one away, send one back down here.

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    According to Joe, Charlie did not jump into this project with a great deal of enthusiasm - or maybe that's not the right word - Joe had to "lean on him" to get his to do it. All that said, I do't disagree with you guys about the name - maybe MM should be reserved for the tone bar "traditional" models.

    I do agree however, with those who think it should be made. It is a great instrument regardless of what they ultimately decide to call it. I also agree that the "visuals" were the first thing that attracted me to it. I particularly like the fact that if it will be called something other than a MM, it won't look like a MM.
    Linksmaker

  14. #14
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    We have MM's Master Models
    We have DMM's Distressed Master Models
    So this would simply be a MMM. Modern (or modernized) Master Model
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
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    Registered User Bob DeVellis's Avatar
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    How about calling it the MX?
    Bob DeVellis

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    or how about The Triple MX?

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    It sounds like a cool mando to me. Why not call it the "Big Joe Model"? Sounds like his baby anyway!

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    Actually you all stumbled on to a good name. The original Loar prints (only the neck prints remain) from 1921 called the yet to be named F-5, the F-X. X for unknown.

    Charlie

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    I'm delighted to see Gibson experimenting with both structural and cosmetic design elements. #Sure, preserve the MM as the gold standard, a pristine recreation of a classic Loar. #But I'd personally like to see a red MM--about the only thing that would tempt me to trade in my Benson. #Or one with reddish sides/back and a pumpkin top. #Or something new entirely, like the F-X (great name!). #Keep 'em coming, Charlie and Big Joe! #

    Bob



    Robert H. Sayers

  20. #20

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    F-X is perfect! But I still vote for "Big Joe Model". I've never met him, but I like him.

  21. #21

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    Like my vote counts, or something....

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    Gilchrist (pick) Owner! jasona's Avatar
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    Couldn't the F-X have a Big Joe Signature Series, the F-XXX? (Because you see, he's big...)

    Jason Anderson

    "...while a great mandolin is a wonderful treat, I would venture to say that there is always more each of us can do with the tools we have available at hand. The biggest limiting factors belong to us not the instruments." Paul Glasse

    Stumbling Towards Competence

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    The label inside says "F5VX". I guess I would agree it should not be called "The Master Model" to avoid confusion. I just call this one "Blondie". However, it is not a fern either. It is a red spruce top and varnish/french polish finish just like the MM's. It does have its own sound and that is cool in itself.

    Hey Jasona...I represent that! .
    Have a Great Day!
    Joe Vest

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    Registered User Kevin K's Avatar
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    Picture? please.
    "Can I have a little more talent in the monitors please?"

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    I've been away for a little while, but I think I can help here. #My husband and I were lucky enough to see this new mandolin the day Joe got it. #We held it, played it and fell in love with it. Joe had that "glazed" look we all get when a new mandolin turns out to be a treasure! #This one is definitely a treasure!! #This was a very exciting day for everyone!! I have a few pictures to show you.

    Dorothy
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