Whats up with Mandos?

[UsuallyPickin]

Any instrument that is hand made will have slight physical differences one to another. Assembly will add to those differences. Those differences make for much of the likes and dislikes we as players have from this to that one. Materials , even those from the same tree , will have minute variation in grain, water content, density...... allowing for more slight variations in tone. Things are never the same, no matter how controlled. Occasionally instruments will sound alike. Largely this is not the case. Mostly , instruments , like players, have distinct personalities and attributes. R/

[William Smith]

GREMLINS my friend GREMLINS!

[LongBlackVeil]

I think you see more consistency in the smaller builders actually. They will judge a piece of wood and through bracing and graduations, they voice them to their liking. Usually with a sort of "signature tone". But also small builders are more likely to make changes to that sound over time as well. Like Kimbles for example, who modeled his older mandolins after Dudes but now has a more traditional loar type sound.

Factories usually just build to spec, so the tone of their instruments are more at the mercy of the wood.

[northfolk]

I have always hesitated to bring this up; as I am supposed to be impressed with Collings; but I was quite disappointed with the sound of the three or four that I have played in the past? They seemed quite thin sounding to me as well.

[Jeff Mando]

I think you see more consistency in the smaller builders actually. They will judge a piece of wood and through bracing and graduations, they voice them to their liking. Usually with a sort of "signature tone".

Supposedly, back in the day, when a potential customer met with John D'Angelico and talked about having a guitar built, part of the process was D'Angelico holding your hands in his, one hand in each of his, for an embarrassingly long time, to gauge the size and shape of your hands. Then he would stop, look up, and say, "I can make you a guitar!" Sort of a doctor/patient arrangement. But, he didn't get a lot of complaints, either.

[LongBlackVeil]

They seemed quite thin sounding to me as well.

Thats just the Collings sound IMO. Theyre definitely bright and not a ton of bass. The best word i could use to describe just about anything Collings makes is "Hi-fi"

I will say, in a mix, Collings' will cut like a knife because of that

[Frank Russell]

I find the tinny Collings comments weird, which just goes to show how subjective this topic really is. I tend to gravitate towards mandolins with more bass than the midrange or high tones, and the four Collings I've owned were purchased specifically for this tendency. Then again, they were all the satin finish, MT or MF models. Maybe that has something to do with the perceived "brightness?" I know some of the early upper level Collings were specifically made with "hard" maple backs, would that account for the difference in tone? That's what I like about mandolins, everybody hears something different. I want a G and D string that really hit that low, woody bottom when wailed on, others want the high, cutting midrange. It's all good. Frank.

[Caleb]

It's not my intention to defend Collings or appear like a fanboy because I own one, but I will chime in only because my experiences with them lacking bass, etc have been the opposite of the above. In fact at a recent guitar show, where the entire hall was filled with the sounds of electric guitars, I sat down with a Collings MT and couldn't believe how loud and full it was in such a place, and it had tons of bass. My own MT has a huge, complex sound and a full low end. I agree with some who say the Collings sound is more "modern" though. But it's not that it's modern as much as it's simply their own sound, which obviously will not appeal to everyone.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Mando's of Marfa Texas? I looked it up...open daily. The tortillas and salsa come highly recommended.

[Eric C.]

I prefer mandolini.

[drbluegrass]

I've noticed that almost every room I play in, if I move around, some locations sound better (sometimes much better) than others. I definitely notice it in my family room/practice studio. If I move 3' in any direction all my instruments sound different, sometimes noticeably better, sometimes not. Just a thought.


Tom

[Astro]

Maybe we should all just quit trying to buy mandos that sound better and just buy houses with better sounding rooms ?

[OldSausage]

Maybe we should all just quit trying to buy mandos that sound better and just buy houses with better sounding rooms ?

I've tried to stop playing at venues that have terrible acoustics. That hasn't been working out so well, though.

[Frank Russell]

If I'm without a friend to play one for me to sit in front of, or I'm testing a new mando in an acoustically challenged room, I'll usually find a wall, big mirror, or other flat, reflective surface (not a big, cracked stone wall with lots of holes), face that surface, stand a few feet back, and let her rip. It gives me a good idea of the mandolin's projection, if there's nobody else there to tell me or play it for me. And Sausage, I know what you mean. I've been in rooms that just "ate" any sound that came out of your mouth, or your instrument. Some of them were actually made for playing music in, or live performances of plays. Like talking to someone in high wind. Frank.

[testore]

Yeah, they're not automobiles. Each one is supposed to be different. That's what makes it so fun. An interesting thing happened to me last week. A good friend of mine plays a Derrington signed Gibson. I've never played one I liked, except hers. We both sound VERY similar on our instruments when we play side by side. We swapped mandolins at a jam just for fun and it was remarkable how UNLIKE each other we sounded. So, ....... It's not always the instrument. It's more often the player who is able to pull a particular tone from any given instrument. The ones YOU didn't like will absolutely find favor with someone else. A shop has to have different tones available to satisfy the many tastes that may come walking in.

[drbluegrass]

Maybe we should all just quit trying to buy mandos that sound better and just buy houses with better sounding rooms ?

Isn't that like the wag dogging the tail?


Tom

[Capt. E]

I think your pick was out of tune when at Gruhns

[Capt. E]

I have always hesitated to bring this up; as I am supposed to be impressed with Collings; but I was quite disappointed with the sound of the three or four that I have played in the past? They seemed quite thin sounding to me as well.

I have never really liked them much, however some people seem to get a great sound out of them (Sarah Jarosz an example). I have regularly been amazed at how much difference changing strings can make, or even just a different pick.

[drbluegrass]

I have never really liked them much, however some people seem to get a great sound out of them (Sarah Jarosz an example). I have regularly been amazed at how much difference changing strings can make, or even just a different pick.

You're absolutely correct regarding strings and picks. Two of the most often ignored factors when it comes to improving/changing the tone of a mandolin. Either can make a significant difference.


Tom

[Astro]

I've tried to stop playing at venues that have terrible acoustics. That hasn't been working out so well, though.

I know what you mean. A group of us play unplugged at a cafe each week and its a blast in the spring, summer, and fall because we mostly play out on the deck. But in the winter we have to play inside and the acoustics are so horrible inside that none of us can even hear ourselves and its just a big wall of acoustic mud in general. We've all complained but there is nothing to do but find another place and we dont want to do that because the rest of the year is so great there and we actually even have a few fans and musical guests that count on us being there. Plus the cafe is more of a wine bar and wine store and well, that flows for free.

[grassrootphilosopher]

A friend has a Collings A. It’s a GREAT sounding mando. I stopped by Gruhn's the other day and played a couple of identical Collings A's and they both were very thin and tinny, and it wasn’t just the room. The Gibsons I have played are all over the map, some great, some not so, with the worst being a late 1920's fern that was a thin and tinny gourd and the next worst being, believe it or not, a Loar. I don't think anyone would debate that Loar was a great luthier. So my question is... Whats up with mandos? Even among mandos made by the same luthier the sound sometimes seems to be all over the map. I realize everyone has different tastes in tone but with mandos it’s like some kind of magic either does or doesn’t happen during the making. And what does a luthier do if they have spent months laboring on an instrument and he/she sees it’s just not going to "have it" regardless of what they do?

So the sound was tinny and thin. And we´re talking about "a Loar" (presuming it´s a Lloyd Loar), a 20ies Fern and Collings A models.

Those are presumed not to be the shabbiest of mandolins. So what about tinny and thin?

When I had my first encounter with a ´23 Lloyd Loar, I wondered what the hype was. To me it sounded "thin and tinny". But when I played my F-5 (not shabby either, though at that time pretty new and green) I was most underwhelmed with the sound of my mandolin. I just had a misconception of the Lloyd Loar sound. It is not like on the record.

What might initially sound "thin and tinny" is an extremely well definded sound (like a whipcord) with extremely nice note seperation. One has to also keep in mind that a mandolin covers a higher musical range than the voice (which relates to the cello or the guitar).

It would be interesting to see things in perspective. Like taking the "friends Collings A" to Gruhns and play it back to back with the other Collings A models, the Loar and the Fern. It might be revealing.

[mtucker]

It's not always the instrument. It's more often the player who is able to pull a particular tone from any given instrument.

Couldn't agree more….most of the time, it's not the equipment (unless it's junk), it's the operator. A big part of tone comes from the hands and soul. After that, it's all personal preference. Can we bag on banjo's instead…what up with them!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I agree with Gary that it takes a bit of exploring to find out just where the sweet spot is on any mandolin. But,even that can change on any given day due to the variations in temp.& humidity. My mandolins sound excellent when they get warm(er). I'm sure that lots of folk who live in colder climates have experienced the 'closing up' of the sound when a mandolin is cold. 'Thin & tinny' is exactly what mine sound like when cold,but when they're warmed up after a couple of hours in a warm living room,the sound absolutely blossoms.
From mtucker - " Can we bag on banjo's instead…what up with them !" Banjos can change tone if they get too hot. I remember one time at a Bluegrass festival when the weather was very hot indeed - something rare in the UK mostly. The head on my banjo got warmed up,expanded, & the whole thing went out of tune.Me & my friends with whom i was jamming moved to a shady area as some of the guitars were getting a tad too hot as well,
Ivan

[Tobin]

I agree with Gary that it takes a bit of exploring to find out just where the sweet spot is on any mandolin. But,even that can change on any given day due to the variations in temp.& humidity. My mandolins sound excellent when they get warm(er). I'm sure that lots of folk who live in colder climates have experienced the 'closing up' of the sound when a mandolin is cold. 'Thin & tinny' is exactly what mine sound like when cold,but when they're warmed up after a couple of hours in a warm living room,the sound absolutely blossoms.

I experience this as well. Even though I keep my house fairly warm in winter, my mandolins feel cool or cold to the touch when I first get them out of their cases and start playing them. The sound, to my ears, is a bit dry and thin. And of course, they usually require some fine adjustments in tuning even I played them the previous day. I've learned not to tune them immediately when cold, because it will need readjustment after they warm up.

I've heard of other people doing this as well, so I've adopted the practice: blowing into the sound hole(s). This exchanges the cold air inside for warm, moist air. I hold the back of the mandolin against my stomach/chest to transfer body heat to the wood. I start playing some closed-position chords up and down the neck to transfer heat from my hands to the neck and strings. Within about 5-10 minutes, the tone really starts to sound warm and delightful, and then I'll go ahead and do my fine-tuning adjustments. The more I play after this, the better it sounds.

I know some of it can be attributed to my ears adjusting to the sound, and my hands getting warmed up and limber and supplying better pressure/placement on the frets as I play. So I'm sure not all of it is the mandolin itself. But I'm sure that part of it is indeed the mandolin getting warmed up and balanced with my body temp. I just think of this ritual as part of "greeting" my mandolin for the day, showing it a little bit of love, and caressing it for a bit before I start abusing it and getting rough.