Chris takes a shot at Henry - No mando content

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm sure you will see one of these on the Opry because Martin will give at least one to some star to play there. The funny thing is that from a distance it will look like a J-200 and when some person sees one and likes the way it looks they are probably going to find the Gibson model before they ever find a Martin. I don't see them making a ton of these to sell unless they start getting orders and at that price I don't see that happening. I think this is a poke and nothing more. I don't see it taking off at that price.

I should have kept my CEO-5. That's what happens when one gets MAS.

[atbuckner21]

Amen. My Larrivee is the best guitar I have ever played including vintage and new guitars ten times it's value.

Buy a Larrivee, where the CEO still actually builds some of the guitars.

[Caleb]

Amen. My Larrivee is the best guitar I have ever played including vintage and new guitars ten times it's value.

The only guitar I've ever played that I liked more than my Larrivee, was another Larrivee.

[allenhopkins]

The funniest thing I've ever seen Martin do, was when they offered up the DX-1 in the low end market. Formica back and sides and that crazy layered neck. Come on, how expensive can laminate wood be!...

I bought a "High Pressure Laminate" (HPL), or Formica, Little Martin guitar a few years ago, to take as a travel instrument for a train trip to California. Cost about $280 with a nice gig bag, and sounded like a decent little guitar. Pretty hard to damage -- well worth the price, in my book.

Martin made an evident decision a few years ago to stop conceding the mid-range market to Asian imports. Strategy seems to work out for them. They keep spinning off "limited editions" and "signature" models at the top end, but they now have a number of decent instruments that younger musicians and the non-wealthy can afford.

Of course, these guitars pale in comparison to their classic models, but things were a bit different when I could pick up a D-18 for $300, gently used. What Gibson has done, in comparison, is to catalog a broad range of Asian imports under its Epiphone (and now, Flatiron) label. While it does seem a bit "wrong" to buy a guitar made out of paper and glue heat-pressed together, yet still labeled "Martin," I slightly prefer Martin's strategy to Gibson's.

[Three-Dz]

I agree with what you are saying Allen, they did make their self affordable to that market. I'm just saying I think they could have done that with a laminate guitar. There are some cheap imports out there with better materials, I would have expected a little better from Martin. My friend had one and it did sound good, just couldn't get past that crazy layered wood neck!

[foldedpath]

I bought a "High Pressure Laminate" (HPL), or Formica, Little Martin guitar a few years ago, to take as a travel instrument for a train trip to California. Cost about $280 with a nice gig bag, and sounded like a decent little guitar. Pretty hard to damage -- well worth the price, in my book.

Martin made an evident decision a few years ago to stop conceding the mid-range market to Asian imports. Strategy seems to work out for them. They keep spinning off "limited editions" and "signature" models at the top end, but they now have a number of decent instruments that younger musicians and the non-wealthy can afford.

Of course, these guitars pale in comparison to their classic models, but things were a bit different when I could pick up a D-18 for $300, gently used. What Gibson has done, in comparison, is to catalog a broad range of Asian imports under its Epiphone (and now, Flatiron) label. While it does seem a bit "wrong" to buy a guitar made out of paper and glue heat-pressed together, yet still labeled "Martin," I slightly prefer Martin's strategy to Gibson's.

At least the cheap Gibson offshore models are made of wood where it matters.

The first thing that struck me about the CEO model wasn't the design, it was that "Corian headplate" spec for the headstock. On a $5,000 guitar? Really?

I sure hope Martin is still offering a lifetime warranty, because when wood decides to move and shrink a little bit over the years, the synthetic parts don't follow. And that's why all-wood guitars and other all-wood instruments have been valued over the years. Everything moves together.

I have a nice Weber octave mandolin, a bit less than 10 years old, where the frets are sticking out a tiny bit on the ends, and need to be dressed because the fingerboard has shrunk a little. That's normal. I expect that with frets. I don't expect the laminated face of the headstock on any of my wooden instruments to behave the same way, and I don't see how that won't be a problem down the line, with this Corian headplate.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks to me like they chose a material that was cheap and easy to laser-cut for inlay, and aren't thinking long-term for the instrument. Martin didn't used to be a company like that, not for $5k guitars.

I'm still wondering about the sycamore neck too. Is that a new thing for guitars?

[Jim Garber]

CEO7 was also a Gibson copy of an L-00.

[almeriastrings]

I agree with what you are saying Allen, they did make their self affordable to that market. I'm just saying I think they could have done that with a laminate guitar. There are some cheap imports out there with better materials, I would have expected a little better from Martin. My friend had one and it did sound good, just couldn't get past that crazy layered wood neck!

On that topic, I know a little background and also some of the folks who were involved in the project. It was not done for cost reasons, for one thing, because it would indeed have been cheaper (and involved less special tooling up) to use standard laminate. It was done to bring new ideas and materials to the market that had some unique properties. The 'stratabond' neck, for example (despite the fact that it looks rather obviously different) is incredibly stable - and tough. The backs and sides are highly temperature and humidity resistant and also resist scratching and impacts well. In one sense, a much cheaper way to achieve similar environmental 'proofing' than with carbon fiber. Companies often 'trial' new ideas and materials. Martin has done this a lot in recent years, with sustainable 'Smartwood' models using domestic woods, and with various other less 'traditional' materials. They also have a bit of history in producing 'fun' guitars.... the famous (or infamous) fiery Louvin Brothers model, for example... or maybe this one

Sycamore: Anyone know which sycamore? If the European species (Acer pseudoplatanus), this is what violin necks have been made from for centuries. The typical European 'flamed maple'. The American Sycamore (Platanus occidentalis), is a different thing entirely - a member of the 'plane tree' family.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Somebody at the Martin factory musy have a wry sense of humour !. Personally,i think it's as ghastly as the guitar it seems to be copying. I'd have thought that the Martin Co.would have thought twice before trotting that thing out.You might as well just buy the real thing & have done with it - if that happens to be your taste. It certainly ain't mine !,
Ivan

[Michael Lewis]

I wonder what stories there are behind this 'event'. Pokes, jabs, and veiled threats, or not. An obvious fake (out) move toward copying some aspects, like the term "cherry burst" that Gibson has certainly capitalized on over the years, but this so called cherry burst is just a 3 color dark burst, not at all like Gibson's version except for the term.

Maybe it's just some inside joke, but I bet there is a good story in there somewhere. Maybe several stories, . . . I can imagine a movie about all this.

[Bernie Daniel]

.....I'm still wondering about the sycamore neck too. Is that a new thing for guitars?

....Sycamore: Anyone know which sycamore? If the European species (Acer pseudoplatanus), this is what violin necks have been made from for centuries. The typical European 'flamed maple'. The American Sycamore (Platanus occidentalis), is a different thing entirely - a member of the 'plane tree' family.

I wondered about those two questions too -- but maybe it is not such a bad decision in the end?

I'd mostly like to see a pic of that sycamore back -- I ASSUME they mean American sycamore (Platanus occidentalis) and not the European maple.

Because as you point out using the later would not be breaking new ground and if maple is the choice then it is much easier just to get an American maple?

That choice, Scycamore, is pretty cool IMO so pat on the back for Martin for that from me.

Sycamore is a beautiful hardwood and probably should be used more. It is not as dense as maple but it is very hard and also very tough. Sycamore = 24 -37 pounds/cubic foot versus 39 - 47 for maple.

[UsuallyPickin]

Bad marketing ideas as well as poor taste seem to know no bounds ........... I truly love many Martin guitars but I am rapidly losing respect for the company........ R/

[Mandobar]

Rumor has it that there were some builders who paid Henry settlements and are free to go about their business unfettered by IP matters.

[William Smith]

That truly is one hideous Martin! I don't think I've ever seen one so. "UGLY" Well ugly girls need love to!

[farmerjones]

So just reading this thread there is a mixed interpretation of just what was trying to be accomplished.
Usually, the risk of loosing a future sale trumps. So whatever goes on in the mind of the CEO is a bit more private.
Maybe the idea was to generate chat. In that case he's a genius. Get you in the NAMM booth with this morphadyte. Then once you're there, why not try a custom D45?

[Finger Stylish]

Imitation being the highest form of flattery.
Showing your neighbor how close you can get without trespassing.

[Jesse Harmon]

With everything that is on the market today the only real thing about this that is truly bad in tragic proportions is the price imho. I just had an 80 year old guitar student walk in with a Keith Urban guitar that he bought after watching an infomercial. At least he only paid 200. for that and the cheap case is probably the best thing about it except it will tune. He is enjoying it immensely and has no clue what anyone thinks about it. If he would have bought the Martin, he still would be enjoying it, maybe a little poorer, but still would have no clue about all these opinions. At least until either falls apart, if they really do fall apart. No one would bet the farm on that one if you were cornered to bet. I have seen some unbelievable old cheap instruments.

[stevedenver]

wow

I guess this guitar just isn't 'authentic' and thus the rancor and outrage.
I mean, only Martin can produce Matin designs, and only Gibson can produce Gibson designs?


I guess,
most don't complain about wearing blue jeans that don't say Levi
I guess most of us have no issues with F models, or, dreds that don't say Martin

I would HOPE, that
there's an understanding that if you're a Martin guy,
and wanted a unique piece, this is certainly IT.
I think this is really relevant, as , just as there is the "Gibson lifestyle" , there are folks that simply adore Martin, ball caps, straps, picks, t shirts, mugs, etc ad nauseum.

and 'they aren't going to make a ton", which is something in and of itself, if you like Martin(s).
It is a collector's item imho. Nothing more , nothing less.

Aside from the marketing brainwash, which I like to think I might get 50% of the time, what's the problem?

Gibson had no issue copping a PRS design for its double cutaway LP, strat designs, etc., nor did PRS in copping an LP. Yet these 'fakes' would uniquely reflect, albeit subtly, the builders unique 'take'. etc.


I guess too, that the very fact they used "The Martin" is tongue in cheek. Or, a tip of the cap.

I would want to hear the martin version first, and then throw stones, not the other way around.
it may well be the best J200 ever. And possibly that L-00 also, they just didn't come from Henry.

Certainly there are many current mando and guitar builders that greatly surpass Gibson at its own game, with nary a word about the legitimacy of those. Nor has anyone ever doubted the legitimacy of a Gibson Southern Jumbo, created due to the success of the Martin Dreadnought. In fact, dreds are the most popular and widespread of all guitar shapes, as I understand things, and I need not mention the basic 2 shapes of mandolins. But these are well established.

So are we casting stones at the utility of these instruments, which I would expect to great,
or the aestheticsor not being 'the real deal'?
or, price/value?

or just 'too damn different'; aint no part a nuthin

As for hideous and ugly, well, a J200 is a J200 by any other name
imho not one of the more elegant guitar shapes and sizes, I agree, but
as for what company's /who's name is on the headstock, what color it is, and the sound and neck, I would love to hear one and play it to make an more informed assessment.

As a dyed in the wool Martin dred player, I like the looks of that 200. I like triburst.


I have a telecaster that doesn't say fender, and its the best I've ever come across, vintage or otherwise, and likewise my two favorite mandolins don't say Gibson, go figure........

[Bernie Daniel]

wow

I guess this guitar just isn't 'authentic' and thus the rancor and outrage.
I mean, only Martin can produce Matin designs, and only Gibson can produce Gibson designs?


I guess,
most don't complain about wearing blue jeans that don't say Levi
I guess most of us have no issues with F models, or, dreds that don't say Martin

I would HOPE, that
there's an understanding that if you're a Martin guy,
and wanted a unique piece, this is certainly IT.
I think this is really relevant, as , just as there is the "Gibson lifestyle" , there are folks that simply adore Martin, ball caps, straps, picks, t shirts, mugs, etc ad nauseum.

and 'they aren't going to make a ton", which is something in and of itself, if you like Martin(s).
It is a collector's item imho. Nothing more , nothing less.

Aside from the marketing brainwash, which I like to think I might get 50% of the time, what's the problem?

Gibson had no issue copping a PRS design for its double cutaway LP, strat designs, etc., nor did PRS in copping an LP. Yet these 'fakes' would uniquely reflect, albeit subtly, the builders unique 'take'. etc.


I guess too, that the very fact they used "The Martin" is tongue in cheek. Or, a tip of the cap.

I would want to hear the martin version first, and then throw stones, not the other way around.
it may well be the best J200 ever. And possibly that L-00 also, they just didn't come from Henry.

Certainly there are many current mando and guitar builders that greatly surpass Gibson at its own game, with nary a word about the legitimacy of those. Nor has anyone ever doubted the legitimacy of a Gibson Southern Jumbo, created due to the success of the Martin Dreadnought. In fact, dreds are the most popular and widespread of all guitar shapes, as I understand things, and I need not mention the basic 2 shapes of mandolins. But these are well established.

So are we casting stones at the utility of these instruments, which I would expect to great,
or the aestheticsor not being 'the real deal'?
or, price/value?

or just 'too damn different'; aint no part a nuthin

As for hideous and ugly, well, a J200 is a J200 by any other name
imho not one of the more elegant guitar shapes and sizes, I agree, but
as for what company's /who's name is on the headstock, what color it is, and the sound and neck, I would love to hear one and play it to make an more informed assessment.

As a dyed in the wool Martin dred player, I like the looks of that 200. I like triburst.


I have a telecaster that doesn't say fender, and its the best I've ever come across, vintage or otherwise, and likewise my two favorite mandolins don't say Gibson, go figure........

Wow too! I'm not sure how you feel about this matter but I suggest two Bayer aspirins and some bed rest!

[lukmanohnz]

Well, it's certainly getting people's attention. From a marketing perspective that's often the goal. Comedians like to say a groan is as good as a laugh. And though it's beyond my pay grade and runs more peacock than my aesthetic preferences, isn't it possible that the model was designed as genuine homage - with the tongue clear of the cheek - rather than shot across the bow? Martin and Gibson are surely competitors in the flat top acoustic market, but I imagine there must be a mutual respect for their histories and legacy.

[stevedenver]

Wow too! I suggest two Bayer aspirins and some bed rest!

played one have you Bernie?

[Jesse Harmon]

That prescription could probably apply to the whole thread.

[Bernie Daniel]

played one have you Bernie?

Don't need to Steve I have the REAL thing! Comments were meant as just a little levity.
But I'd try it out if it were offered.

[stevedenver]

my point exactly
sorry if I offended with my thoughts on a 200 shape.....

[Bernie Daniel]

my point exactly
sorry if I offended with my thoughts on a 200 shape.....

I'm just glad that Martin finally admitted that the J-200 really IS the "King of the flat tops"!