Eastman Mandolins

**neal** · Apr-10-2005, 10:19am

It's kinda hard in these threads about "how do you like Brand A mando" #just who has financial interest. #I know Steve does, and that's ok, everyone knows he's a dealer and a good one at that, #Gabriel sounds like he has an endorsement deal w/Eastman, so this would put him in the "have a financial interest" crowd.

It'd be nice if #the folks WITH financial interest stayed away from threads with the above topic, but I s'pose that's impractical and some probably feel would be unfair. #

If there are questions about a specific mando, hey, jump in, but I feel, IMHO,YMMV, etc...when folks are trying to make a decision about a major (to most) purchase, they'd be a lot better off hearing from regular folks, REAL pro's and con's from a consumer's point of view. #Not paid sales spiel

I just know I've offended someone, but, what the heck, it wasn't my intention.

**J. Mark Lane** · Apr-10-2005, 11:02am

Neal, I couldn't agree more. And no one should be offended by your comments.

I recall that the musical instrument builder's board was always operated with very strict no-commerical-content rule, such that you would get tossed for even sounding like you were posting out of commercial self-interest. I guess the folks there found that to be a good rule.

Arguably, a builder's board is different -- there is more of a need for "pure" discussion. This board frequently addresses consumer and market issues. So there is, I think, greater "room" for commercial content. And obviously Scott must agree with that idea. There are advertisers, and there are representatives of various makers and retailers posting here. As you said, as long as we know who they are and what their motives are, it shouldn't be a problem.

I think the critical point is that there needs to be room to call them to the carpet when we think they are wrong, or are too motivated by their own commercial interests. There is, imo, way too much "nicey nice" around here. I have found that if I criticize a post, or try to counter what I think is too much "hype" about a brand or product, I get a lot of flack (much of it private, some of it public). There's no reason for that. There needs to be balance.

I think the thing that bothers me the most, and I see it here, is someone "pretending" to be neutral, or objective, while subtley slipping in their own promotion of themselves and the products they sell. It's a fine line, and one could misread things here. But what I see tends to leave an icky feeling in my gut, when I think someone is trying to appear objective while at the same time really trying to drum up business. But I don't think there's much anyone can do about it, other than call them down when we see it.

Oh, and by the way, nothing personal, but I think it's preposterous to discuss Gibson, Collings...and Eastman in the same context (sentence etc), as if they were even remotely comparable companies or products. When someone can show me Eastman mandolins that compare to Gibsons and Collings's, I'll rejoice in retracting that sentiment.

Mark

**Spruce** · Apr-10-2005, 12:17pm

"I find inconsistent setup and response to be the case with virtually every instrument sent me, from mandolins to banjos."

It amazes me that this step in the factory making process, especially in mandolins where setup is such a huge issue, is so-ooo neglected....

Walk around a NAMM sometime and play nothing but mandolins. #It's stunning how many of them are well-made, but with maybe an hour's worth of work more, they'd be twice the mandolin...
(Stop by the Collings booth first to get your setup bearings, and then head out for the cacophonous NAMM floor....)

This goes for some big names as well as small factories...

And no, it ain't the change in humidity....

**neal** · Apr-10-2005, 3:55pm

"Eastman doesn't pay me or any other dealers that I know of. #Neither do the other makes I carry." -Steve Perry

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding of #my original message, and I certainly don't mean to single you out, Steve. #I'm sure, with your reputation, that you'd try to steer someone away from a dog in your stock. #But that's the point I was trying to make, #you have a financial interest in selling Eastman mandolins, so as was said above, that's where the line gets blurry. #

A guy wants to know how are Eastmans, and it shouldn't be a dealer or someone that's a paid endorser (cash/instrument/favors) telling them al they need to know. #

The way I see it, a dealer/endorser (see definition above) should really shy away from those threads, ethically speaking, unless asked a direct question. Just my opinion.

**RichM** · Apr-10-2005, 5:55pm

I welcome the participation of dealers like Steve Perry in this forum. The fact that Steve has handled and setup probably a couple dozen Eastmans means that he's probably seen the range of strengths and weaknesses. The fact that he's an instrument builder himself suggests he knows something about construction. And the fact that he's always been as honest as the day is long gives him a ton of credibility in my book.

Pretty much everything on these boards is opinion. And, over time, I've learned whose opinions are credible (to me), and whose are not. I think most people are smart enough to figure that out for themselves. I certainly wouldn't want to silence a group of people who have access to a lot of mandolins and seem to know a thing or two about them.

So far in this thread we've seen one poster shot down because someone thought he was a dealer promoting his shop. He wasn't-- just someone who thought he had found a really reputable dealer with really good prices. I welcome that kind of info-- the same way I welcomed the dozens of posts from people who'd found cheap F-9s at Guitar Center last year. Funny how none of them was accused of being a Guitar Center shill.

As to whether we've become too "nicey-nice" here-- well, I welcome a civil discussion environment, don't you? After all, we're talking about making music here, not politics. Everyone has a right to disagree with anyone else-- just make sure you're okay with someone disagreeing with your disagreement.

**neal** · Apr-10-2005, 6:35pm

I welcome the participation also, that wasn't the flavor of my message. It's just hard enough to see who's got a real financial stake and who's got an honest opinion (not that the dealers on the board give dishonest opinions).

If I owned a shop that sold a specific mando, I would think it improper for me to chime in on a topic like this one. I would think that because of my stake in the business, and wouldn't want people thinking I was being insincere.

Again, just my humble opinion, and yes, I do believe that it's perfectly acceptable for you to disagree with me, Rich.

**danb** · Apr-11-2005, 6:14am

Ok, putting on my "Cafe Moderator" hat.. It's good to be up front if you have a stake in the advice you're giving.. a while back we requested that dealers or reps of businesses put a link to their store or business in their board signature with a simple description or job title.

As examples of folks doing this, take note of Big Joe, Bruce Harvie.. these guys both have links to their business on their postings. It's nice to know to whom you are speaking. It has happened several times where people are clearly trying to "buy low, talk up the maker, sell high" on the cafe, and we've stepped in on those threads. We don't want the boards to be used for pure advertising (ie a 90-page thread bumped up to the top of new posts every day by guys selling stuff they are promoting in that thread).

We don't want to take the attitude that folks with a commercial interest shouldn't post *at all*, often that kind of input is invaluable and a great glimpse inside the process.

When there is a lot of promotion and encouragement of something someone is selling with out any notes saying that, that gets us watching threads.

On this particular thread, I'd like to see dealers and store owners identify themselves, or simply add "I should mention that I sell these, but here's my opinion...". That keeps it clear who is saying what.

Also, we don't expect all comments to be positive, but we prefer to see stuff kept polite rather than argumentative.. just act as though you are speaking to a real person in public, and realize that there is no need to be insulting to convey a point.

**metalmandolin** · Apr-12-2005, 8:41pm

Hi all,

#I'd like to share my recent experience with Eastman mandolins. For the record, Steve Perry is a friend of mine, and I am not an Eastman endorser, at least not officially.
#I have been watching Eastman with much interest and curiosity lately, and have determined that they are so controversial because they are so good! My credentials...I will teach for the 3rd year at Kaufman's Mando Kamp, I teach 55 private music lessons per week, have set in with numerous artists you've heard of, and co-wrote a #3 chart song in BG last year...now enough about me.
#I tried, and purchased, an Eastman 615 (#166) 2-3 weeks ago. This is without a doubt one of THE BEST mandolins I've ever played. Thunderous chop and sweet tone; it'll growl when I want it to, also. Sounds like a varnish, doesn't it?
#I've played some awfully good varnishes; several Loars and other great mandos over the years. The characteristic that they all shared was the way the box "jumps" when you come down on a good chop chord. This Eastman "jumps" the same way. The other good part is that we can all afford these. Am I calling it a Loar...heavens no...but it's one of the best mandolins I've ever played. By the way, I've played Loars I did not care for, also.
Case in point..wood is temperamental no matter who built the mando, no matter what the price tag says. I've played hundreds of mandos "off the rack" where there was marked difference between mandos of the SAME builder. Some I liked, some not. Some seemed like "dogs", some were great. I must say, however, that I have yet to play an Eastman that wasn't worth at least it's reasonable asking price.
#Setup is also such an important factor..funny how we buy a mandolin, only to send it off immediately for setup. This is where things get interesting! I played the Eastman for a few minutes at a time, and Steve Perry would ask to see it. He would then seemingly remove imperceptible amounts of wood from the bracing, perhaps other places inside the top, and even the bridge. EVERYTIME he handed it back, it sounded better. Being a bench-builder of violins, Steve is in tune with the properties of violin building, and realizes the similarities with mandolins. My point...
#If the mandolin wasn't good, how did he improve it? Those of you that know me know also that I know what I'm talking about. Now, let me comment about endorsement.
#What is not being factored in is the commitment on the part of the artist to be seen and heard exclusively with a "fill in the blank" mandolin. If I were a builder, I would require this commitment before I'd let go of any instruments, anyway. This would for the life of a contract, kill any other opportunities for the player to get a "fill in the blank" mandolin. Therefore, at least in my world, I'd make sure that I was getting a mandolin that I liked. So much for the myth concerning "free" mandolins.:laugh:
#Anyway, friends..I purchased my first Eastman..it's a KILLER, and I am negotiating an endorsement with them AFTER first buying one myself. They are probably not for everyone, but they are a phenomenon none the less in today's marketplace...totally unprecedented! If we don't come to an endorsement agreement, I'll still gladly play it...see you at Mando Kamp in June!

**jasona** · Apr-12-2005, 9:04pm

I have picked a little bit on one Eastman, a 505 or 515 IIRC. I thought it was much better sounding than my old Kentucky 150S (and definitely MUCH better looking). Very open tone, and nice volume. I thought it lacked a depth that my current mandolin has. I have no idea if it would with time deepen its tonal palate from the brief sit I had with it, but I thought it is a great beginner's instrument, and a decent intermediate instrument.

However, if the difference between it and the higher models is only cosmetic and not tonal, then I agree with J. Mark in saying that for the same price as is asked for the upper models you can get better tone looking elsewhere. Note I am being speculative here--I have not myself ever played a top of the line Eastman.

FWIW. Buy what you like and can afford, but PLAY the darn thing--its the MUSIC that is important after all! Its better to buy a low end mandolin than have no mandolin at all! I'd rather pick a Lonestar than nothing!

**JEStanek** · Apr-12-2005, 10:19pm

Its been a few days since I got my 814 oval hole and then found my camera... here are some photos. I really love playing it. It makes me happy. I think it sounds swell.

**JEStanek** · Apr-12-2005, 10:21pm

Actually, I really like it. It really makes me happy.

Front.

Special thanks to Mando Cafe for bringing the Eastman to my attention.

Jamie

**neal** · Apr-13-2005, 7:09pm

Ok, now THAT'S what I'm talking about. #

Ummm, however, metalmandolin's only been here since, oh this month, so he could be a friend of #Steve, and.......JUST KIDDING, carry on, I'm really not a conspiracy theory advocate, unless it involves those dang republicans

and that's the truth.

However, I did play an Eastman at J. Hale Music in Hartland last year, I believe it was an 815 or something, it was an F, and it played well, it was easy to chord, action was good, very playable, but it really didn't have as nice a sound as my Japanese Morris that I also had on hand, but maybe it just needed some playing time. #they are good looking though, but they need to get a new headstock logo and on the ovals, it would be nice if the soundhole was'nt as "busy" as it is.

**grsnovi** · Apr-13-2005, 7:39pm

Boy, the back of that 814 is beautiful. I agree 100% with Neal on the logo and oval inlay (but I also have seen some gorgeous logo suggestions on that other thread).

**metalmandolin** · Apr-13-2005, 8:14pm

Hey Neal,

#I'm laughing...you almost got me, though. Actually, I used to post some as "metalmando", but have been in lurk mode for a year or two, and subsequently forgot my password. I've been following the cafe for about 6 years, actually. I just don't talk much, I guess. And...I am a friend of Steve's, we've been acquaintances for 2 years, and friends for 6 months. He does have a great business, and I'm glad to know him. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!

I'm Roscoe Morgan, and I approve this message #

**meskalito** · Apr-14-2005, 10:12am

Gorgeous mandolin.

**mandoJeremy** · Apr-14-2005, 6:36pm

Well, I can say this then. I have played Gabriel's 815 and it is an excellent mando and especially for what the cost is on them. It plays really well and is pretty dang loud. It also has nice tone. I am not an endorser nor do I have any financial interest in Eastman!

**Skittle** · Apr-17-2005, 9:03pm

Hey Gordon,
How are the new fiberglass case improvements coming along?

**Frank Russell** · Apr-18-2005, 10:00am

I went to Buffalo Bros. to get a "camper" for me, and a starter for a friend's son. #I was specifically going to play/buy a Flatiron Performer (Bozeman era) that Bob had on the website, and look at others in the range of 1K and under. #Played Webers, the Flatiron, several Breedloves and a Rigel or two, as well as a Sumi and some other independent makers. #Also played several Eastman mandos, including a blonde 2-point and blonde F5. #Left with a plain-jane Eastman 515. #Why? #Because even as snobby as I am with mandolins, I couldn't pass this one up. #It is the loudest mandolin I have owned so far, and that's saying a lot. #No, it does not have a Gibson or Collings tone, and for the price, I don't expect it to. #However volume, playability and finish are all way above average, and it's light and has a nice neck profile. The Bobelock style case is also super nice. #The headstock inlay is ugly, the scroll doesn't look right, and I'm just as happy with it as I could be. #Frank

**Mando4Life** · Apr-18-2005, 8:40pm

If I had the means, I'd look into one as a second mandolin.
They look good and seem to have a lot of happy owners.

metalmandolin....dont you play (or used to play) with PMRR?

Maybe I'm just getting my names confused....

WBL

**metalmandolin** · Apr-18-2005, 9:26pm

Hey mando4life...

#You are correct. I played with PMRR from Aug.2001 to Jan. 2003. My mando work is on "The Old Radio" project, and some of my songwriting is there, but they dubbed over my vocals just prior to the release of the project. Their new mando player at the time of my departure overdubbed the vocals. My work is also on their "Old Country Church" project.
#I used to endorse Ron Cole mandos..still think they are great, and am not new to the cafe, just momentarily dormant. I used to post as "metalmando", but forgot my password! I took time off with my new wife (2 years now) and have a new baby girl (10 months old).
#I am working now with Eastman mandolins as an endorser (I bought one first), and am re-united with Jimbo Whaley and Clint Damewood (also former PMRR) in GREENBRIER. We work through 2 websites...jimbowhaley.com and roscoemorgan.com.
#Probably more information than you asked for, but it's great to be back on the scene again. I'll see some of you at Steve Kaufman's Mandolin Kamp again this year, where I serve as an instructor. O.K....enough about me; let's talk about you guys for awhile

**flairbzzt** · Apr-18-2005, 9:30pm

Skittle-
Two or three weeks ago I asked Gordon the same thing about the cases and he said nothing yet-look for a change no sooner than several months from now. I'm holding off on buying another one until then.

Roscoe-I was just about to grab that #166 from Steve before it disappeared a while back. Keep me in mind if you sell 'er.

**f5loar** · Apr-18-2005, 10:33pm

I finally got around to picking on 2 F5 style models(forget their numbers)but one was the high end and the other the one under the high end. For under $2000 these are the best thing going IMO. You know I have no interest in these but I can say I would happily own one and consider them stage grade mandolins. The necks are a little chunky like the old 50's Gibsons but that dosen't bother me. The playability, the tone and the string atack is super. The seem to be able to hold up under the pressure of heavy picking. I'd like to seem them with more headstock inlay.

**metalmandolin** · Apr-18-2005, 10:38pm

Flair,

##166 is indeed an incredible mando..ask Skittle. We compared Eastmans yesterday, and his is a crusher, as was F5 Joe's as well. Theirs are tone bars, mine is x-braced. Each sounded like they're supposed to. It is exciting to see this much consistency coming from a new company that so many are unsure about.
I state without reservation that these are great mandos. I can't imagine parting with this mandolin, but I'll keep you in mind.

**EastmanGordon** · Apr-22-2005, 1:19pm

Just wanted to drop in and make a quick note for all of you players in the New York area. A few weeks back someone posted here and mentioned that they had spent some time at Mandolin Brothers in Staten Island trying out their stock of Eastmans and they found them quite inconsistent. I called Stan at the store and it turns out that his inventory is well over two years old and some of the first instruments we ever made. We made a decision to swap them all out for brand new mandos so if you are in the area you can go in and check out some of our current state of the art Eastmans. The mandos that were there aren't defective or anything, I think we know much more about set up these days and the strings we originally used didn't work as well as they might. The mandos that Stan has right now are playing and sounding the way we think they should so you can get a much better idea of what an Eastman is all about. Go in and check them out and play them alongside all the other great mandolins that he has in there and you will get a pretty good idea about sound and playability and I think you will be impressed.
Good hunting!
Gordon