what should I get for a first mandolin? Eastman? Kentucky? Or...

[Zyzzyzus]

Hello,

This is my first post so I apologize if it's not in the correct spot. I am a long time wind player, and have always wanted to branch out into stringed instruments. I mostly play baroque/renaissance/celtic/contra dance tunes but love blue grass. My mom has had a mandolin for years and I picked it up recently and started messing around. After trying guitar and banjo, I think I've found my stringed instrument. She isn't keen on letting me borrow hers though, and I won't be around it much longer so I'm looking for advice on getting one of my own. I love the versatility of mandolins and that there is music written for them in so many styles. The mandolin I have been playing on is a Kentucky 180s, probably from the 80s. It's an A shape with f holes. It seems like that model, A shape with f holes is probably the one I want to go with, since it works for bluegrass and celtic/classical? I'm not sure at this moment what style I'll end up liking the best so I want to keep my options open, and people seem to say the oval holes are not as good for bluegrass. I play recorder, and would love to be able to add some color to my ensemble by playing a mandolin.
I think I have about $500 that I could spend, since I have been planning on selling my guitar for years. I know that all solid wood is the way to go, and that hand-carved is better than not hand carved, but when the description of a mandolin says 'solid wood, carved' does that mean hand carved or not? Many of the Kentucky models specify that they're hand carved. I have to confess, that purely on an aesthetic level I much prefer non sunburst finishes. Are Eastman mandolins good? I have a guitar center near me so I'm planning on trying out a few mandolins in the next few days, but I'd also love to hear from more experienced players what I should be thinking about. In the future I would LOVE to play mandocello, but I just don't have that kind of money right now. I want to get a mandolin that will last me for as long as possible. I'm willing to pay more than $150 up front, to do this. I've had enough experience listening to, and playing, various instruments that I can hear the difference between cheaper and more expensive models tonally speaking. I'd rather get a decent mandolin now, and then in a few years when I am more settled and have had time to save money, invest it in a mandocello or mandola, rather than continual mandolin upgrades.

[Astro]

At this stage, don't over think it. The single most important quality for a beginners mandolin to have is a proper set up. That is more important than the type, style, or brand. Yes its nice to have all solid woods, a carved top, and a decent bridge.

A simple short specific answer to your question is--get the Kentucky KM150 well set up from The Mandolin Store. Just call them and see what they have in stock. Trying to predict what you might like 2 years from now is impossible and you have to start somewhere. That is a good place to start.

Welcome and have a great journey.

[jshane]

Astro just gave the best answer you could have gotten ---

[nickster60]

What Astro Said!

If the Mandolin Store doesn't have a Kentucky km-150 you could also try Folkmusician.com or Elderly both are great as is the Mandolin Store.

[Nashville]

Yep, what Astro said. There are several very reputable dealers mentioned in this forum that you can trust to pick out a great first mandolin for you and with a proper setup. If you purchase from your local Guitar Center or similar store, it will seldom be setup correctly and they just don't know mandolins. Kentucky makes great lower priced mandolins.

[Steve VandeWater]

Yep, what Astro said. There are several very reputable dealers mentioned in this forum that you can trust to pick out a great first mandolin for you and with a proper setup. If you purchase from your local Guitar Center or similar store, it will seldom be setup correctly and they just don't know mandolins. Kentucky makes great lower priced mandolins.

I visited my local Guitar Center recently, and they had mostly Washburn mandolins. Every mandolin there had been "set up" by the guy I spoke to. The bridges were all sitting on a diagonal between the F-holes, nowhere close to perpendicular with them. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen.

[UsuallyPickin]

There is a used model KM505 which is a higher grade A model Kentucky mandolin than the 150. It has been listed in the classifieds here on the café since August. The asking price is 500.00$. This model is a little dressier and has , according to Saga a " higher grade of materials". I'm thinking this 505 is a mandolin you will keep and play longer. I am not adding this to disagree with the advice above. A new well setup KM 150 is a good solid mandolin to begin your mandolin journey on.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/78672 Luck ... R/

[Zyzzyzus]

Thanks for the advice. I totally understand that guitar center is not likely to have set up the mandolins properly, and am fine with buying from Elderly or something similar online, but I still want to play some different models first. What is the difference between a radiused neck and another type of neck?

[bart mcneil]

A radiused fretboard is rather expensive and likely not available on your price range of mandos. Some like'm, some don't, but I think for a beginner they are irrelevant as they cost money and add nothing tonally.

If I were you and looking at your price range I would very seriously consider a used instrument. New Instruments Drop in value as you walk out the shop door usually by about 1/3 their cost in your price range. For roughly $300 you can get a used fairly new $500 instrument with a few scratches, but often they are well set up and are ready to play, saving lots of money and giving you a nice player.

A style mandos are almost always a lot less expensive than "bluegrass" style mandos with their carved scroll strap hanger.

[lflngpicker]

I recommend a J Bovier A5 Tradition-- those have great tone and are getting rave reviews on the MC. The Mando Shop sells them for $469. This will give you years of playing enjoyment and satisfaction. I am a believer in the KM505, as well. A great recommendation.

[allenhopkins]

Thanks for the advice. ...I still want to play some different models first. What is the difference between a radiused neck and another type of neck?

Good idea to play as many mandolins as you can before you buy, even if some of them are ones you aren't considering for purchase. Broader experience often leads to wiser decisions.

The Kentucky KM-150 has become sorta the "universal basic mandolin" recommended here, but there are other options worth trying. In answer to your questions: Eastman does make excellent mandolins, and their "no frills" 300 series is within your price range. All Eastman mandolins are hand-carved solid woods. If a mandolin's specs say "carved" but not "hand carved" most likely the top was carved by a compute-controlled machine. This is not ipso facto a sign of total inferiority, but generally hand-carved is better -- and also more expensive.

A radiused fretboard has a slight curvature, similar to the fretboard on a steel-string guitar. Other mandolins have a flat fret-board, like a nylon-string guitar and most banjos. Some like one, some the other; carving a radius does add, again, to the instrument's cost.

As stated several times above, for a learner, proper set-up is the most important thing, more than sound or appearance. There is no inherent reason why you can't play bluegrass on an oval-hole mandolin, but the f-hole variety in general has a more percussive sound -- sharp attack, quick decay -- which works well for the off-beat chording ("chopping") that's part of a bluegrass mandolinist's repertoire.

[timcw4]

I recommend a J Bovier A5 Tradition-- those have great tone and are getting rave reviews on the MC. The Mando Shop sells them for $469. This will give you years of playing enjoyment and satisfaction. I am a believer in the KM505, as well. A great recommendation.

Very happy JBovier A5 Tradition owner and customer of the Mando Shop here. That said, the nicest Kentucky mandolin I played locally when I was looking was a Kentucky 505 but no buyer's remorse with a A5 T.

[yankees1]

At this stage, don't over think it. The single most important quality for a beginners mandolin to have is a proper set up. That is more important than the type, style, or brand. Yes its nice to have all solid woods, a carved top, and a decent bridge.

A simple short specific answer to your question is--get the Kentucky KM150 well set up from The Mandolin Store. Just call them and see what they have in stock. Trying to predict what you might like 2 years from now is impossible and you have to start somewhere. That is a good place to start.

Welcome and have a great journey.

Go with suggestions from Astro ! Spot on ! The Mandolin Store is a great place to do business with also !

[CES]

Definitely play as many as you can, more to decide what neck and nut width you like than anything else. Kentucky 500 or 505, Bovier mentioned, Loar 400 series, and Eastman's 300 series are in your range. Iirc, they all come with a radiused FB (whereas the 150 and similar models don't). I prefer a nice radius, but have both kinds, and switch between them without issue. I think the set up being correct is more important than the FB or neck profiles.

Also, I played one of Breedlove's entry level mandos a couple of weeks ago, and was actually pretty impressed. Elderly and TMS were running a 299.00 clearance on those, though they may have sold out. They're solid topped, laminate b/s, but are really put together well, and offer a slightly wider nut, which, again, is a personal preference for some and not necessarily better or worse.

Because you can't yet really know what you like in a mando (because that takes experience and playing many different instruments to figure out...took me years, and those preferences are still evolving), find the best deal on any of the above mentioned models at a store that does a good setup (like those mentioned above and Janet Davis Music) and don't look back...seriously, don't stress about it, they'll all work well for you. Just don't buy from eBay or the big box stores (musician's friend, GC) online unless you can do the set up yourself or are willing to pay extra for it post purchase.

[Zyzzyzus]

Thanks again. I played scales up and down the neck of all 5 A-style models that my local music store has (not GC). The eastman 305 felt best, and played best, hands down. I think it felt better than the fancier Kentucky's they had, which were way out of my price range. Now that I'm looking at the spec of everything again, I wonder if it was the radiused neck on the Eastman that made the difference in feel. Now for another question, how do I know if a music store can really set up an instrument properly? This one offers Mandolin lessons, so it seems like at least somebody knows mandolins there. But the one person I talked to said he didn't think that any of the instruments in my price range had radiused necks. It's possible he just forgot, and it's also possible he's not the mandolin person though. I like supporting local businesses and I also like the idea of not having an instrument shipped to me in below freezing temps. From reading the forums here though, people do that all the time and it does seem to work out. Would it be better to get one online from a place that everybody says sets up mandolins well?

[metrognome]

...how do I know if a music store can really set up an instrument properly?

I would ask other experienced players in your area for recommendations. Having a local go-to guy (a luthier with a reputation for good work) is a good thing, and so far I've never been lead astray by asking around for such a person. I'm also thinking, such as in the case of the Eastman you describe, that part of the reason it felt and played better than the others you tried is that it is already set up nicely. Good luck and I really think you're going to wind up with a great first mando that fits within your budget.

[bart mcneil]

"The eastman 305 felt best, and played best, hands down. I think it felt better than the fancier Kentucky's they had, which were way out of my price range."

Keep in mind that for the most part the playability of a mandolin is a set up issue, not a "quality of the instrument" issue. Judge by the tone you want primarily. Normally the shop where you are purchasing does settups and can and will adjust your purchase for better playability. If the shop does not do settups maybe you are at the wrong shop. That is normally one of the advantages of a brick and mortar instrument shop. You may pay a little more but you can ask that your mando be set up for your needs and hold them to it. Cuz that is their job.

[bart mcneil]

You may not be considering used, But if you are, the Big Muddy (formerly Mid-Missouri) is a remarkably fine sounding round hole mando which can often be found for around $400 on this site. I have one for roughly ten years and am still blown away by its rich tone.

[Astro]

Well I love my Eastman MD305. I have played several entry level Eastmans and liked them better than the mid level Kentucky I played. I've heard others attest that the MD's sounded better than the mid level Eastmans too. So, I'll bet you found a good one too.

I think the thinner finish of the entry MD Eastmans may help the tone. Also, the Eastman has a thinner neck and smaller frets which was more comfortable to me initially. I also played the entry Kentucky KM150 and it sounded great too. Better than the mid level Kentucky I played. Again, I think its thinner finish? Possibly even a thinner top ? So dont get caught up in the idea of "if I just pay a little more, I might get something I'll keep longer". There can be a disconnect in price/quality at the entry realm. Also your preferences will likely change in your first 2 years as you figure out what they are. You simply can't know yet. So why spend more?

The set up is the primary thing. These squirrly little fuss budgets are tough on beginners who dont realize that a millimeter here or there may be the difference of whether or not you stick with the instrument long enough to get over the hump.

And as stated above, there are many great choices to buy from here. I just assumed from your OP that you needed some specific direction because the choices can be overwhelming. Your local store is a good option too as well as all the folks mentioned above. Also I've had the best experience with the classifieds here.

[Mace]

Where do you live? If there is a Guitar Center in the vicinity there also might be a reputable music store that stocks mandolins and is knowledgeable. The on-line dealers previously mentioned are excellent but check out what might be available within an hour or two drive. Then compare to on-line and the cafe classifieds. The homework you do usually translates to greater satisfaction with your decision. You will also get a comparison to higher end instruments in all probability.

[Northwest Steve]

I will agree with most of the advise given but might offer a different take. I started playing the mandolin this year and it is my first instrument so have walked in your shoes recently. I bought a Eastman 305 new. It was a display model at a festival so had one little 1/2" scratch so was a little less. When I got it I could not even get it to tune so took it to a friend and he tuned it and played, thought it was a great starter mandolin. The more I played and the more I read I came to the realization that it was not set-up properly. I had a luthier set it up and was much better to play. But I really liked that mandolin and thought the sound was terrific and think the thin finish does make a difference. I also liked the satin look. The 305 does have a radius (slight) fret board. The more I hung out here and read the more I wanted a better/nicer mandolin. I do not need anything more than the 305 for my level of play understand. So I had an opportunity to purchase a Kentucky KM1050 used with extras and in great shape so I bought it. It took my a while to get used to it and for the mandolin to wake up (it sounds dead if not played for a while). The more I like it the more I appreciate how nice it is. It does have the larger frets and a radius fret board and the set-up is terrific. There is a big difference between this and the 305, in playability, sound, feel and looks. This will be one I keep for a long time. I am hesitant to take the 1050 certain places so I picked up a Kentucky 150 recently when it was on sale based on all the reviews. It has a flat fingerboard but the neck feels similar to the my 1050 (which is a good thing), it looks nice and feels good. The set-up was perfect out of the box. The sound is ok but not great to my ears. I have only played it for a short time so that hopefully will improve some. But to me I much preferred the Eastman 305 for feel and the sound was much better. But the 305 was $200 more than the 150.

It looks like you only have $150 now and need to sell a guitar for the rest of the money? If that is true I would try to get your funds in order so if you find a good deal you can act. It is much easier to negotiate with cash in hand. so the suggestion of finding a jam or some other players in the area is a great idea. there may be a few to try out, some good advice or maybe a good used instrument.

Most of the less expensive mandolins will be cnc carved or some machine carving and finished by hand. There will be a difference in any mandolins as for as sound and maybe feel/playability. I think that might be more so in the less expensive ones.

You said that you wanted a nice mandolin that would last you a long time and you can tell the difference in tone of a good mandolin. The other though I had was if you do have $500 and could some how come up with two or three hundred more (not sure if that is possible or how long it would take) it would open the doors on a lot more options, especially if you are open to a good used one. You can find Kentucky 900/950's for $700-800 used here. There would be some other nice options in that range as well. Good luck there are several nice mandolins in your price range so just find one that plays. feels and sounds good to you and play it a lot.

[Randi Gormley]

I've owned a bottom level Kentucky and a bottom level Eastman and I like the Eastman better -- I like the look, the feel, the fretboard, the sound and the responsiveness. My old Kentucky (a 380s) fell asleep when it wasn't being played a lot and my Eastman is ready to go when I am. I'm just putting this out there fwiw; a student I had once had a Kentucky 150 (or 160, I can't remember which right this sec) and it was ok but not as good as the Eastman. It may have been individual instruments, but if you like the Eastman and it feels right, you won't go wrong picking it up. My opinion, of course, and worth what you paid for it!

[Zyzzyzus]

Ok so I went back to the music store today with the intention of liking the Kentuckys. And they sounded good, until I picked up the eastman 305. And then I picked up the eastman 404. Oops. It's an oval hole, is that why it sounded so much deeper and richer than the f hole model? I really really like the feel of both eastmans. They were effortless to play whereas for me, the Kentuckys felt normal aka not bad but also kind of uncomfortable. So, depending on where I sell my guitar and what I get for Christmas, I might even be able to stretch and get an eastman 505. Is it silly to pay so much for an instrument as a beginner? Also, for those who have experience with J Bovier mandolins, how do they necks/fretboards compare to the eastmans? I can't find a store with a J Bovier in stock anywhere around me, but I do Really like the sound of them from the video I heard.

[Caleb]

I've owned a bottom level Kentucky and a bottom level Eastman and I like the Eastman better -- I like the look, the feel, the fretboard, the sound and the responsiveness. My old Kentucky (a 380s) fell asleep when it wasn't being played a lot and my Eastman is ready to go when I am. I'm just putting this out there fwiw; a student I had once had a Kentucky 150 (or 160, I can't remember which right this sec) and it was ok but not as good as the Eastman. It may have been individual instruments, but if you like the Eastman and it feels right, you won't go wrong picking it up. My opinion, of course, and worth what you paid for it!

I have had just the opposite experience: my old Kentucky was always ready to go, but my Eastman takes a good 15 or so to wake up. They are all so different that it hardly even matters what maker a particular instrument is it seems.

[metrognome]

My first mando was a gift to me of a low-cost plywood A, which delighted me to no end. It played fairly well, but it really lacked the tone I wanted to hear. So last year after casting about town to see what was in inventory locally I spent about what you intend to spend and couldn't be happier with the instrument I got here off the Classifieds, lightly used and extremely well cared-for. In my case I got a "The Loar" although while looking I was open really to Kentucky, Eastman, J Bouvier etc. as well.

But what I really wanted to say was it is not silly to buy in your given price range as a beginner. Lots of reasons why it makes good sense. You will have an instrument that you love to play. If you need to sell it you'll get back close to what you have in it. You will both play more and practice more and your learning curve will be steeper.