Cittern nut width?

[Tavy]

For those of you with 5 course (CGDAE mandocello/OM tuned if possible) instruments what nut width do you have and how do you find it?

Many thanks! John.

[Rob Zamites]

I wish I could help, but my waldzither and cittern aren't in my hot little hands yet Next week though! (I hope)...

[margora]

"For those of you with 5 course (CGDAE mandocello/OM tuned if possible) instruments what nut width do you have and how do you find it?"

On my Walt Kuhlman liuto moderno/liuto cantabile, tuned CGDAE, the nut width is 1 5/8 inches (assuming I measured correctly). I find this to be very easy to play.

[Laurence]

For those of you with 5 course (CGDAE mandocello/OM tuned if possible) instruments what nut width do you have and how do you find it?

Many thanks! John.

1 5/8" nut x 24 3/4" scale. That's about as narrow as you can get with 5 double strings. I find it very comfortable. The length is important for the tone of the lowest string. Shorter may easier, and may work for some, but it's not very conducive to the dynamics of the lower notes. Harps and pianos have a changing string length to match the pitch, but that's not possible with our citterns, bouzoukis, and mandocellos.

[klaezimmer]

All of these scale lengths are shorter than a typical mandocello, but I offer this for what it is worth.

1 5/8" on a 15" scale tuned D G D A E, built by David Freshwater in Scotland;
1 5/8" on a 19 5/8" scale tuned G C G D A, built by Glen Reid of Burks Falls, Ontario;
1 3/4" on a 22 1/8" scale tuned G D A D G, built by Stan Pope in western Canada (now Big Leaf, formerly Road to the Isles).

1 5/8"is the smallest I would go, but do understand, this is more of a 12-string guitar string spacing than a continuation of a 1 1/8" American octave mandolin spacing. If you prefer that tight 1 1/8" mandolin/octave mandolin spacing, you are very likely to be looking at a nut width of under 1 1/2".

I do not find the 1 3/4" too wide. If I were building one or having one made, I would probably be in the range of 1 11/16" to 1 13/16" - maybe 1 7/8". At this stage of my life, I find myself muting too many strings with my adjacent fingers on the narrower necks. Just bear in mind that the shorter your scale length, the more massive those low C strings will be; and that will have some bearing on your ideal nut width.

Ron

[Colin Lindsay]

1 5/8" on a 15" scale tuned D G D A E, built by David Freshwater in Scotland;

That’s the one I had, loved to play it but was told it was like a spade handle with strings…
As a guitar player it suited me perfectly.

[Nick Gellie]

Tavy,

It also depends what is the width at the 12th fret. My Abnett cittern /mandola is 15/8" (42mm) at the nut and 17/8" (47.6") at the 12th fret. I like to go high on the fretboard beyond the 12th fret. I find with my small hands that it can be a stretch getting to the G and courses above the 12th fret. If the width at the nut and 12th fret were 2-3 mm narrower, I would find the fretboard of the cittern much easier to play (39-40 at the nut and 44-46 at the 12th fret).

I also find that sometimes the inside of my index finger gets pinched on the bottom side of the fretboard. The back of the next is quite flat at the back of the neck on the Abnett.

I hope that helps.

[Tavy]

Many thanks for all the data points - that's really useful - for my own benefit here's a summary in metric units:

Gypsy liuto cantabile, 41mm
Big leaf, 44.5mm
Abnet 42mm

I also have:

Fylde, 44mm
Graham MacDonald 'zouk book, 42mm

and finally... if you take Mike Marshall's 'cello spacing, and add on an extra course using Graham MacDonald's OM spacing, you end up at 48mm... which is about on Ron's 1 7/8" suggestion.

Looks like I'm heading towards 44 as my preference tends to be for wider rather than narrower...

[GarY Nava]

So what are you up to Tavy? I'm just working on the design of a 10 string mandocello and have decided (with the client) to go for 45mm at the nut.
Cheers Gary

[nkforster]

For those of you with 5 course (CGDAE mandocello/OM tuned if possible) instruments what nut width do you have and how do you find it?

Many thanks! John.

When I worked for Sobell a "standard" 10 string nut was 44mm. Mine are 40mm unless asked otherwise.

Nigel

http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/inst...rish-bouzouki/

[Nick Gellie]

I am with Nigel Forster on a 40 mm nut width. It makes it easy to get around the courses without a long finger stretch. My Abnett at 41 mm is not far off it. I just remeasured it then.

[Bernie Daniel]

Here is the 1 11/16" (42.8 MM) nut on the cittern that I made from a The Loar arch top guitar. I seemed to be easy enough to play and it is living in Idaho now.

[Tom Wright]

Don't know if you checked Tom Buchanan's site; he posts his cittern's nut width as 40mm, or a little over 1 9/16". That is not much wider than the 38mm on his 10-string mandolin, and I find that width very comfortable, not too separated or too crowded.

[Tavy]

Thanks for the additional data points - Gary, it sounds like we're working on similar projects, mine will be guitar bodied, floating bridge, removable (bolt on) neck, and variable scale. Haven't quite finally settled on the scale yet, but I think I've almost talked myself into a 25-26.5" scale. Oh and did I mention the secret ingredient around which the whole instrument is designed? No? Well it'll have to wait!

[GarY Nava]

Thanks for the additional data points - Gary, it sounds like we're working on similar projects, mine will be guitar bodied, floating bridge, removable (bolt on) neck, and variable scale. Haven't quite finally settled on the scale yet, but I think I've almost talked myself into a 25-26.5" scale. Oh and did I mention the secret ingredient around which the whole instrument is designed? No? Well it'll have to wait!

Sounds interesting! Mines, a "pear" shaped carved top; we've decided upon 643mm scale. My client is going for spot or pin-point capos (whatever you want to cell them!) so should be interesting too.
Cheers Gary

[Niall Anderson]

Sounds interesting! Mines, a "pear" shaped carved top; we've decided upon 643mm scale. My client is going for spot or pin-point capos (whatever you want to cell them!) so should be interesting too.
Cheers Gary

That's interesting, Gary - are you making the capos, or are you sourcing them from somewhere else?

Niall

[GarY Nava]

That's interesting, Gary - are you making the capos, or are you sourcing them from somewhere else?

Niall

I'll probably be making them, as far as I can tell, I don't think that they are available commercially.
Cheers Gary

[Rob Zamites]

You active luthiers make me jealous

I'm so far the leading bidder on another old waldzither, will needs some TLC, but nothing outside my capabilities. Baby steps, right?

[catmandu2]

My Freshwater is 40 mm (neck width at the nut) and just over 24" SL. My Doyle is also 40 mm at 25-3/4" SL.

[Marcus CA]

My Richard Beard cittern has a 1⅝" (41.3 mm) nut. It's a little wide for me, but I have small hands. The instrument sounds so incredible (spruce top, koa back and sides) that I'm willing to deal with the stretches.