A bold ToneRite claim

[sblock]

There have been a number of threads on the Mandolin Cafe discussing the ToneRite (r) vibrator device, and its purported ability to improve an instrument's sound by subjecting it to shaking at auditory (and sub-auditory) frequencies. There are also luthiers that offer a "de-damping" service that does much the same thing, but perhaps a bit more methodically.

The ability to improve the musical tone (of a guitar) by this device has been refuted in at least one controlled, peer-reviewed study, but a number of serious musicians claim to have anecdotal evidence to the contrary, and it would fair to say that the effectiveness of the ToneRite remains controversial.

I don't really wish to re-hash a discussion of that particular aspect of things, but I read a recent advertisement in the MC Classifieds that made this additional claim about the ToneRite -- and it's one I hadn't heard before:

"Not only will your instrument sound better but the notes themselves will come easier, allowing you to play more difficult passages with less fatigue."

The repeats the oft-heard claim the the instrument will sound better, but it goes well beyond that!

So, I was wondering what the Mandolin Cafe members thought about this additional ToneRite claim? It is conceivable that vibrating your mandolin could make it easier to play with "less fatigue"? If so, how would that work, from (say) a scientific perspective? Or from any other perspective?

Could this somehow be a purely psychological phenomenon: namely, if your instrument merely sounds better to your ear, then it also becomes easier to play difficult music, and possibly less tiring? Or are folks just fooling themselves? (I note here that fooling oneself is common, well-documented, and very real -- otherwise, the "placebo effect" would not exist in medicine.)

So, is the ToneRite device the musical equivalent of a sugar pill? OR, could it truly make your instrument not only sound better, but make it easier to play, as well?

[terzinator]

maybe the claim is really that it becomes louder. (Which makes you feel like you have to play with less muscle.)

never tried one of those devices, so no idea about their true virtues.

[Toni Schula]

maybe the claim is really that it becomes louder. (Which makes you feel like you have to play with less muscle.)

never tried one of those devices, so no idea about their true virtues.

Or maybe you should treat your hands with tose TonRite vibrations?

[foldedpath]

Balderdash, flummery, and poppycock.

[FLATROCK HILL]

I read a recent advertisement in the MC Classifieds that made this additional claim about the ToneRite -- and it's one I hadn't heard before:

"Not only will your instrument sound better but the notes themselves will come easier, allowing you to play more difficult passages with less fatigue."

As you said, it is an "advertisement". I remember advertisements that claimed that "Doctors recommend Camels".

[George R. Lane]

I tried one once and believe or not I can play far better than Chris theelee No not that one, it's a guy who lives down the street from me. :

[Bertram Henze]

Balderdash, flummery, and poppycock.

Remember, Xmas time is coming. You'll be visited by three ghosts of ToneRites past, present and future tonight...

[Dave Cohen]

Interesting that there seems to be a markedly different attitude towards the Tonerite device, and even towards "dedamping" in general, since the Savart Journal article was posted. From the beginning, I thought, with some reservations, that the whole "dedamping" idea was hooey from the start. The reservations came from the previously published works on violin family instrument shaking with classical music played through a stinger and playing-in. Hutchins and others did present some evidence that there are minor long-term effects from vibrating a bowed string instrument for ca 1500 hrs, and slightly larger effects from long-term playing-in. There were serious limitations on the earlier studies though, and the Savart article did address some of those limitations. The pre-Savart article threads were full of personal testimonies about the profound positive effects of dedamping.

[John Kelly]

Or maybe you should treat your hands with tose TonRite vibrations?

Actually, you would have to apply the ToneRite to your fingernails as your fingertips would absorb too much of the vibration. It is important too that you DO NOT apply to the thumb nail as this could cause your grip to be negatively vibrationally modulated and cause the instrument to be dropped without warning as your thumb began to take off on its own across the neck of the instrument!

[Tobin]

I've used my Tonerite on several mandolins, and aside from having better tone to my ear, they do seem easier to play. I have no doubt that it's purely a psychological effect. As an engineer, I can think of no physical or structural reason that the Tonerite would change the action on the instrument. But it seems easier to coax volume out of it, meaning I can play more relaxed. For me, it has made a difference. Even if it's all in my head, I'm happy with the results. Especially on my vintage F4. For whatever reason, the A and E strings just seem easier and more "free", if that makes any sense.

[JeffD]

But it seems easier to coax volume out of it, meaning I can play more relaxed. .

That does not seem like an unreasonable explanation. If the vibrations have an effect (and there are various not unreasonable explanations as to how this might be possible), then volume as well as tone could be improved.

I know from playing my resonator, that higher volume doesn't just mean playing louder. It also means playing at regular volumes with a lighter touch. Lighter touch allows one to play faster.

I am not saying I buy it, or that I don't, but I do find the claim not any more unreasonable than the other tonerite claims.

[sblock]

T

I am not saying I buy it, or that I don't, but I do find the claim not any more unreasonable than the other tonerite claims.

Well, I do find the claim more unreasonable than other ToneRite claims! And so do a whole lot of us. Not only does it claim to make the instrument sound better, but play better. Some have already suggested in this thread that a ToneRite apparently makes the mandolin play better because it makes the instrument louder, allowing a lighter touch and faster speed. Well, a change in loudness would be another extravagant claim for the ToneRite, but at least it's something that's more testable than simply asserting that it improves the tone, which is terribly subjective. One can measure loudness in a straightforward fashion (volume as a function of frequency). And either the ToneRite makes your instrument louder or it doesn't. I await the measurements with interest.

[JeffD]

Well, I do find the claim more unreasonable than other ToneRite claims! And so do a whole lot of us.

I've always reveled in being a contrarian.

If I went by "a whole lot of us" I would play guitar, not mandolin.

...And either the ToneRite makes your instrument louder or it doesn't. I await the measurements with interest.

Amen to that.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I suggest everybody seriously interested in this subject read this book by Prof. G. A. Reumont: http://http://www.amazon.com/dp/1892210029?tag=themusicianandin&link_code=as3&crea tiveASIN=1892210029&creative=373489&camp=211189

[Ivan Kelsall]

Maybe their claims are simply worded poorly. For instance - "....allowing you to play more difficult passages with less fatigue.".
Possibly meaning as Tobin suggests,that more difficult passages become ''more clear to one's hearing'',giving the impression that you're playing 'better' & 'more easily'. Other than that it could be - "Balderdash, flummery, and poppycock !!.". I love that word ''Flummery'' Foldedpath. I haven't come across it in a long while. Of course other than it having taken on a derogatory meaning,it was originally a soft pudding popular in England & Ireland in the 17th to 19th centuries.
Maybe our Cafe colleague is implying that an application of 'soft pudding' might produce similar results - who among us can say he's not right ?.
Ivan

I must look up 'Balderdash' & 'Poppycock' - Maybe an application of those substances could yield audible results ?.

[Bertram Henze]

other than it having taken on a derogatory meaning,it was originally a soft pudding popular in England & Ireland in the 17th to 19th centuries,

Quite a few highlights of British cuisine seem to have gone that road...

[Astro]

I dont know about those claims but i can say with 100% certainty that this ToneRright thread causes over eating.

Ever since its first post yesterday I have consumed massive amounts of Turkey and fixings.

Sure some naysayers will call that anecdotal but I can assure you it has happened to me and I cant see another explanation for it.

[Ultra Turtle]

I noticed a big difference when I used a ToneRite on my Martin with an Adi top. I played it all of the time, but after a year and a half it just didn't sound like I thought it should. About 4 days on the ToneRite it opened up a lot. Sounds wonderful now.

When used for the right purpose I think it can help.

I didn't think my Weber Yellowstone sounded good at all until I was playing it constantly. That being said... the ToneRite for mando wasn't necessary for it.

[allenhopkins]

Yeah, but how does it make your mandolin look? Does it get rid of those pick scratches, smooth out that too-abrupt sunburst shading, enlarge the fretboard inlays and make 'em really sparkle?

Don't really care how my mandolin sounds, but on-stage flash is everything...

[bratsche]

I must look up 'Balderdash' & 'Poppycock' - Maybe an application of those substances could yield audible results ?.

Poppycock is just another highfalutin' "gourmet" brand of glazed popcorn available in many varieties, this particular one made famous by Orville. No, not that one, the other one. (Or maybe the other "other" one!) I doubt it would do anything other than slow your playing down, although you might hear some audible noise from the action of your sticky fingers on the strings.

bratsche

[journeybear]

Speaking of specious claims ...

Quite a few highlights of British cuisine seem to have gone that road...

... the Hormel Corp. of Austin, Minnesota, USA will surely take exception to this!

This is, arguably, a highlight of British humour. Note that no Tone-Rite was used, Nor needed.



PS: Bratsche, this is one reason why, at gigs, I often eat with my right hand. I don't mind risking the pick sticking to my fingers, but can't abide doing that to the strings. Also, cleaning a pick is a lot easier.

[JeffD]

... the Hormel Corp. of Austin, Minnesota, USA will surely take exception to this!

I read somewhere that something like 90% of the vegemite purchased in Australia is made by Kraft Foods in the US. I heard that an American cannot by vegemite from Kraft directly, but has to by it from a retailer in Australia and re-import it to the US.

Its a complicated world.

[Mandobart]

It's quite simple; here is the technical background:



It's all in the spurving bearings and dingle arms.

[journeybear]

I read somewhere that something like 90% of the vegemite purchased in Australia is made by Kraft Foods in the US. I heard that an American cannot buy vegemite from Kraft directly, but has to buy it from a retailer in Australia and re-import it to the US.

I dunno. Although there are inconsistencies at wikipedia (the Vegemite page says Walker [company that first produced it] partnered with Kraft in 1925, the Kraft page says it mergered with Walker in 1930), Vegemite is produced in Australia: "Vegemite is produced in Australia at Mondelez's Port Melbourne manufacturing facility which produces more than 22 million jars per year. Virtually unchanged from Callister's original recipe, Vegemite now far outsells Marmite and other similar spreads in Australia. The billionth jar of Vegemite was produced in October 2008." (Mondelēz International is the American-based company that currently owns the brand.) Looks like corporate HQ in USA, production facility in Oz.

[sblock]

Wow! This thread has sure managed to wander far from its original topic, namely, whether the ToneRite (r) could possibly make difficult passages on an instrument "easier to play," as claimed. But the recurring injections of irreverent humor (some of which are pretty good!) lead me to suspect that few among us here are able to take this device very seriously. And maybe that's appropriate? Collectively, perhaps we're striking the right tone for the tone rite!?


May your tone be ever right!