23 Loar Setup Video

[Dobe]

.... around 8:56 there's some pretty scary stuff involving a razor blade.

What, that scratch ? That was there, it's a pretty old mando don't cya know !

[stevedenver]

I too have a real problem with this. didn't care for the AM dj intro voice either...just a little too slick for my taste. I surmise this reflects a rather large ego??? or he doesn't know enough to know what he doesn't know? Or common sense rules don't apply to him? Nice to say you have worked on 3 Loars in terms of status and presumption of legitimacy, but this video tells otherwise imho, and underlies, perhaps how luck has smiled upon him and his unknowing customers.

it is clear he has some idea and experience, and is very direct and 'no fuss'. I get that many appreciate this approach. often so do i.

but, my gawd, this is a 175K+ instrument. no neck support, no protection, alcohol near varnish (why the heck would you chose alcohol instead of say, a tiny dab of fine metal polish?-(both will clean, but one will smooth the wear he mentions, and wont drip) geez. and here we are, on the board, presumably run of the mill dudes and we know to back thread, tape, etc.

having done my share of little stuff, adjustments, soldering in new pick ups and pots, swapping tuners, building lutes and guitars at one time. etc, simply, no matter how careful one is, mistakes happen.

I would be unhappy if something happened to my little 'common' mandolins, no less what is simply the top of the heap in terms of the mando world and history.

the only real question, to me, is despite fortune favoring his method, how in fact did the final set up and quality of his work fare? I hope the owner knows enough to make the determination.

as noted sometimes cheap is dear, and, sometimes negligence is unacceptable.

[Marty Jacobson]

Tough room.... any of you ever do a setup on video? :-)
I doubt Frank Ford would have done it that way, but if the customer trusts the guy enough to do it, and the customer is happy with the work, what harm is done?
There are a lot of things a skilled person does which may look risky, even ludicrous or silly. Magnified by an auto-gain camera microphone and the ability to do an instant replay, things might look a lot more redneck than they actually are.

[Robert Smyth]

Jeez, I had to stop watching it as soon as he started filing the frets, never mind the way he wrestled the strings off of the tuning pegs. I take better care when restringing my beater Kentucky 505.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Tough room.... any of you ever do a setup on video? :-)
I doubt Frank Ford would have done it that way, but if the customer trusts the guy enough to do it, and the customer is happy with the work, what harm is done?
There are a lot of things a skilled person does which may look risky, even ludicrous or silly. Magnified by an auto-gain camera microphone and the ability to do an instant replay, things might look a lot more redneck than they actually are.

I respect your opinion. (With the possible exception of your pejorative use of the term "redneck".)

The guy doing the repairs/set-up in this video may be the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. I'm sure he posted this video, not to brag about his own chops, but in a genuine effort to impart the benefit of his experience to others. And honestly, I feel bad about being critical of him. You're right though, it's a "tough room".

I'm sure there are plenty of things that go on behind the scenes in luthery (or most any profession for that matter) that would cause the uninitiated (I include myself) to cringe, while to the true professional, it's just business as usual.
But I'm not watching this video from the luthier's viewpoint. The stuff I don't know about luthery is limitless.

I can only watch this from the viewpoint of a customer. I know how it feels to leave your 'baby' in the hands of a stranger. I expect a certain level of care to be taken. I just don't see that here.

[Tom Smart]

I'm sure there are plenty of things that go on behind the scenes in luthiery (or most any profession for that matter) that would cause the uninitiated (I include myself) to cringe, while to the true professional, it's just business as usual.

I have a violin that needed a repair requiring the neck to be removed. I took it to a very competent violin maker who asked if I'd like to watch as he removed the neck using his "karate chop" technique. I did watch and it was horrifying, but it worked. The repair was successful, and the violin has been working perfectly for a long time now. In fact, it's my favorite violin I've ever had, but it would have been useless without the repair.

I know a bad repair when I see it, and I know a good repair IF I can see it at all. But I know nothing the actual process, so I prefer to judge the quality of the work rather than criticize the method.

[Jeff Mando]

As, has been stated in previous threads, lutherie is a fancy word for guitar repair. Guitar repair is basically woodworking, not brain surgery. Yes, hammers are used to knock things loose, drills and saws are used.....

Actually, they use hammers, chisels, drills, and saws in brain surgery, also.....

If the man was repairing a $3 yo-yo, nobody would be shocked. The value of a Loar makes his technique a matter of conversation.

[LongBlackVeil]

if i was working on my own mandolin this is about what i would do, but for someone else i might be a little more careful just to respect their property. Ive never seen instruments as "babys" or any of that, no matter how valuable it is.

[sgarrity]

This conversation is what happens when we put more value on the object than the purpose it was built for.

[FL Dawg]

It won't be fit for its purpose much longer in less than qualified hands.

The video was a horror show. Utterly careless. Some "luthiers" don't have enough respect for their customer's property.

[mtucker]

This conversation is what happens when we put more value on the object than the purpose it was built for.

I get your point completely and know generally where you're headed with this. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you....but let's put this more in context...

This is a Loar, and by all accounts is considered priceless and should be treated as such with some level of reverence, if at minimum, for the objects age alone.

Like I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't let this guy change a plug wire on my 50 Chev with that kind of approach, but that's just me. There are tons of hacks out there, surgeons, attorneys, you name it...some are capable of getting the job done, but not consistently, and usually with very mixed results...

I've learned over the years through bad experiences to go with the percentages and to 'run' from folks like this.

[stevedenver]

As, has been stated in previous threads, lutherie is a fancy word for guitar repair. Guitar repair is basically woodworking, not brain surgery. Yes, hammers are used to knock things loose, drills and saws are used.....

Actually, they use hammers, chisels, drills, and saws in brain surgery, also.....

If the man was repairing a $3 yo-yo, nobody would be shocked. The value of a Loar makes his technique a matter of conversation.

not quite........

one size doesn't fit all. Ignorance is not bliss.
More care, more knowledge, more experience is merited with something of greater value. This is to avoid potential loss.

while at some point it might well be 'about the value of the object instead of the purpose for which something was made', that changes-a old Persian rug isn't used as a foot wipe or door mat, nor is a 15th century Italian tapestry, (initially used for eye candy as well as room insulation) to be used for a window shade. Add rarity, and the strictly utilitarian/functional aspect can indeed become secondary. Like the 'collector mentality' or not, its real. I don't change oil in my best suits, and I don't use fine vintage wines for cooking either. And im not about to attempt to rebind a first edition of Uncle Toms Cabin by using a 3 hole punch.

I think we have all seen instruments, 'repaired' by folks that don't know how to do so properly, bolting down a lifting guitar bridge for example, or, glopping on the Duco cement to fix a lifting pickguard, the 'refinish', and other Frankenstein approaches.

It is not the same as fixing an item that will be of little loss if botched.

[sgarrity]

It's not like the guy took a sledgehammer and a belt sander to it. I would imagine if the owner hadn't been happy with the work performed that the luthier probably wouldn't have posted the video. I just think people need to lighten up over this kind of thing. Loars aren't priceless. They command the prices they do thanks to Bill Monroe and their rarity. Don't get me wrong, a lot of them sound magnificent and possess the tone and feel we're all looking for. But a lot of modern builders make instruments just a good. I'm just glad that there are still lots of Loars being used in bluegrass from regional jam pickers all the way up to the best mandolin players in the business.

I have a friend that leases some variant of a Mercedes SL every two years. The way he treats it you would think it was the only one on the planet and was worth the GDP of a small nation. And he works for Mercedes!! Whenever we meet for dinner he'll park in the farthest spot away from the door. We had to change restaurants one time because there weren't any secluded spots available. Whenever he arrives first I always park right next to him. Spins him up every time! My other half backed our convertible into a parked car about a year and a half ago and the scratch is still n the bumper to prove it. Neither of us is losing any sleep over it.....

[FLATROCK HILL]

My other half backed our convertible into a parked car about a year and a half ago and the scratch is still n the bumper to prove it. Neither of us is losing any sleep over it.....

Honestly Shaun, (and I mean no disrespect for your viewpoint) It's great that you can back your car into a parked car and not lose any sleep over it. It's just possible though, that the guy with the parked car sees things differently.

I'm one of those people who drive to the far end of the parking lot looking for the secluded spot. I don't really appreciate it when someone who doesn't care about their car or my car, swings their door open and dents my car. I go out of my way to avoid that situation and my doing so in no way infringes on anyone else.

I don't believe that I'm materialistic. I know that my stuff is just that...stuff. It's all just material possessions and I can't take any of it with me when I go. While I'm here though, I like my stuff. I want to keep my stuff nice. I try to do my best to keep my stuff undamaged and I really appreciate it when others show some respect for me and my stuff as well.

Once again, It's great that you don't care too much about the condition of your stuff. I'm sure that makes for a worry-free, healthy and relaxing life.
I'm happy with my life too. I just don't see eye to eye with you on this issue.

[stevedenver]

shaun, I get not being ruled by stuff.


otoh, i also get appreciating something that another has meticulously crafted.

and, I AM pretty materialistic-or anyway, I have lots of stuff that I like.

i guess, for me, having built lutes and guitars, and having my limitations in execution, when i see something beautifully made, it awes me, I want to celebrate it, and i acknowledge that. not unlike the difference between watching a marathon, and having run one. there is a difference in understanding, in what goes into that simple 'run', I think.

when I had my old '35 A 50, which was almost mint, even that mando, with its age, and relative rarity with raised fingerboard, made me think of it as something special. I guess its a different mindset. I tend to simply play my instruments, but am always mindful of taking good care of them too.

loars arent pricless . well, technically, no.
otoh, at ten times the price of a gil, damn near the cost of a house, college education ,years of saving for the average person,and far more than most have for retirement, ihave a hard time understanding the minimization of the instrument.

most of us take a lot of care not to lose a twenty dollar bills.

[mtucker]

And he works for Mercedes!! Whenever we meet for dinner he'll park in the farthest spot away from the door. We had to change restaurants one time because there weren't any secluded spots available. Whenever he arrives first I always park right next to him. Spins him up every time! My other half backed our convertible into a parked car about a year and a half ago and the scratch is still n the bumper to prove it. Neither of us is losing any sleep over it.....

hehe, your analogy doesn't quite fit but I digress ...I joke with my friends back East and tell them that the big Benz sedans have become so commonplace out here that they've become the new Ford Galaxy 500 of Southern California ... heck, 90% of the mini-beemer converts and little Z roadster's are owned by 16 year old kids on the high school water polo team.. murdered out with flat black paint and big rims!

[Bernie Daniel]

I watched this video a few years ago and I really think all the concern about Jerry is off the mark or over the top.

Jerry Rosa is a more than competent luthier and repair guy and has a great reputation.

He works on great mandolins all the time and he has a bunch of videos up to prove it. He is a master at restoration as well. As a luthier he builds F-style mandolins as well as other instruments.

I suggest watching more of his videos before passing judgement on him.


BTW he is a good picker as well! Here watch this -- Jerry on the mando.

[Jeff Mando]

Jerry is a good picker and obviously knows how to setup a mandolin. Probably a "victim" of being caught on video. OTOH, I go to a lot a vintage guitar shows and it doesn't happen often, but once in a while you see someone wearing white gloves to handle a vintage instrument---that's when ya wanna slap 'em silly, IMHO, that's taking it too far. If people trust him with their Loar, he has already passed the smell test.

On the OTHER, other hand--like the police videos that have been in the news recently prove, two people can watch the same video and see totally different things.

On the other, other, other hand--Richard Simmons made a career out of selling videos to housewives who wanted to lose weight--and he is chubby!

[David L]

The way Jerry plays really has nothing to do with his luthier skills. That said, I found his playing just like his luthier skills: heavy-handed, fast, and not very clean. Why do so many people (not just this band) rush the three accented chords at the end of the bridge?

[Capt. E]

Yep, how many times did you hear the ends of the strings rub across the top?

Yeah, I could see a loose sting end scratching the top. He was winding them up way too close. I also jumped a bit when he cut them.
Is it a problem that inexperienced owners might use his videos as a guide to repairing and maintaining their own instrument, however valuable?

[mtucker]

I've murdered this enough ..but plain and simple..99% of the world just doesn't know...they don't know, what they don't know, which means it's largely acceptable to everyone...it doesn't matter what we're discussing if it gets down to the nit nit and whether its in-person or in cyberspace! ...slowed down or at full speed... yeehaw!!

[Canoedad]

This is why dentists play soothing music

[Jeff Mando]

This is why dentists play soothing music

Exactly! There's no gentle way to file frets...

[FL Dawg]

Probably a "victim" of being caught on video.

The excuses and rationalizations are disturbing. The video doesn't lie. He treated a priceless instrument carelessly and demonstrated less than impressive technique. I see and example of what not to do when I watch him working.

[Bernie Daniel]

The excuses and rationalizations are disturbing. The video doesn't lie. He treated a priceless instrument carelessly and demonstrated less than impressive technique. I see and example of what not to do when I watch him working.

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion no problem with that.

However is should be noted that in the real world Jerry has over three decades of repair/luthiery experience and all kinds of folks with expensive instrument bring their stuff back to him time after time -- so he must be doing something right....just saying.

As Jerry noted someplace (maybe on another video?) that the owner of that Loar was pleased with the set up he did on it. QED.

By the way here is the part 2 of the set up --someone claimed they could not find it?