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Thread: 23 Loar Setup Video

  1. #51
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Well I take back my criticism after watching the 2nd part...learned a few things. I know some people use the new lubricants that don't attract dirt and grime instead of 3in1 etc. I like the two finger tip for re-stringing.
    As far as taping the fingerboard is concerned, a skilled technician probably doesn't need to do it...think of the residue from the tape for one. I'm surprised someone didn't ask why he didn't not wear cotton gloves...overkill?

    Mandolin sure sounded good at the end.
    Jammin' south of the river
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  2. #52

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    I think you're watching the confidence of an experienced repairman, nothing more, nothing less. (you don't wanna see a video of your dentist removing a wisdom tooth that won't budge, either, believe me. Sometimes, they have to "lean" into it!) Sure, a millennial generation repairman would probably use a high-tech bicycle lubricant, but 3-in-1 is probably closer to what Gibson originally used. Worked fine for Bill Monroe--although I've even seen people on this forum criticize HIS playing, also. ??? (which probably should be against the law).

    I think the bottom-line is most repairman adhere to an oath, if you will, that they will not damage an instrument or attempt a repair that is beyond their ability. At least I do.

    As far as value goes, it is difficult to separate utilitarian value from the hype. Even a Rolls-Royce won't drive very well without air in its tires (or tyres). And air is free, but it will strand you if you don't have any. Same as a broken $10 radiator hose. Or strings on a mandolin. The utilitarian value of a Loar, if I may, would be the same as any professional level instrument, $5-10K, IMHO. It is used to make pretty music. The same could be said of a Strad. The "rest" of the value, we have created as part of the hobby--who played one? how many were made vs how many are left? Demand?, etc. And, that is not to say a Loar isn't a great investment. Which it is.

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  4. #53
    Shredded Cheese Authority Emmett Marshall's Avatar
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    I think he works with the confidence and techniques that come from having three decades of continuous experience. It's the end result of his labor that matters. Did he damage the Loar? Nope. Does the customer trust him? Yes. Doesn't he realize that he is responsible for that Loar? Yes.

    I don't get the posts about "proper this" and "proper that." The man fixes the stuff, for real. Yes he does, and his customers love him and keep coming back. Where's the problem?
    Weber F5 Bitteroot Octave - "...romantic and very complicated."
    My instruments professionally maintained by...RSW
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE

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  6. #54

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Sometime in the late 1990s, I sent Jerry Rosa a Kentucky mandolin. I had never been happy with the sound and Mr. Rosa talked me into replacing the top with one of his. When I got it back, I couldn't have been more disappointed. To get the old top off, he sawed through the fretboard and the fretboard extension. The repaired version was left with a hump in the fretboard where he sawed through and also had a replaced fret over the saw cut that had deep file gouge marks. There were problems in the way the top was made and the top was finished in a salmon color. I complained about the fretboard treatment and he advised me to send it back and he did make that look better, but sent me a bill for another set of strings. I didn't ask him to do anything about the top as I had decided that this was the best he could do. If it were not for my talented friend in Nashville, Scotty Jackson, the mandolin would have been a lost cause. Scotty recarved the top and tone bars and refinished it to a beautiful tobaccco sunburst. Mr. Rosa may have greatly improved his skills since my experience, but I would still advise the customer to beware.
    Hal Jeanes

  7. #55

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    First I want to say thank you for all the folks who did find something positive in my video and for defending both my skills and my playing. Though in my opinion my playing sucks.

    I apologize to Hal immensely for not doing a better job on replacing the top on his mandolin nothing I say is going to change that. But I wish I could change it.

    In regards to the others who made comments very negative comments I might say. I might just say these things: First of all, my camera is incredibly sensitive it's sitting on a very hard formica top so any little sound is amplified immensely. Regarding no support for the neck when filing frets. What you should realize is that every single string puts around 60 foot pounds of pressure on the neck. Multiply that times 8 you can see what kind of foot pound pressure you have under normal conditions. When I'm using the file on the frets I'm probably putting maybe two pounds of pressure if that, on the file. That is a very small percentage compared to the string force. So there's really no need to have any kind of support under the neck whatsoever. In fact I prefer to work wthout a support.

    As far is rolling it around on the top of my workbench. That pad I have there is much softer than it looks in the video and I do shake it out all the time and keep it clean. Regarding the file and someone making the comment about not using a flat file. Obviously you don't know anything about files. Every single file ever made has some sort of curve to it. There are none that are completely flat you always have to turn the concave side up. If you don't, then you don't know how to file frets.

    Guys I realize I'm not perfect. I also know it's the trend these days to just rip people apart on the Internet. Sorry you don't have anything better to do with your time. You might be interested to know that I also took a Lloyd Loar mandolin apart in the mid to late nineties. It belonged to my Uncle Don Brown of the Ozark Mountain Trio. It is currently owned and played by Frank ray as far as I know. That mandolin had been sent back to Gibson 3 times for the neck coming off. Each time they fixed it, it failed within a month. I took it completely apart cleaned the neck joint put it back together and Frank Ray has been quoted as saying its the best of the 24 Loars he has owned. It has never come apart since.

    I imagine I'll get tons more negative comments after posting this. As one of you wisely said, there just NO WAY TO LEVEL FRETS gently.

    In closing I would suggest that any of you could post a video about anything and all of us could pick it apart. My apologies to anyone I've offend. I do not mean to offend you. I'm just trying to explain the video.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Mr. Rosa,

    Thanks for chiming in. I understand some of the criticism, think some of it is unjustified, and readily admit that I am not a luthier. I have only basic set up experience and a speed neck under my belt, though I do hope to eventually build my own 3 pointer someday. I wish you well and hope that you've learned from earlier mistakes (which we all make...see James Condino's Avitar .

    There's some science and a lot of art to luthiery. I hope you've found that balance, as I have a tremendous amount of respect for those instruments I've been fortunate enough to to play that were built before 1946...my hope and prayer is that you have that same respect...
    Chuck

  10. #57
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Quote Originally Posted by rosastringworks@gmail.com View Post
    First I want to say thank you for all the folks who did find something positive in my video and for defending both my skills and my playing. Though in my opinion my playing sucks.

    I apologize to Hal immensely for not doing a better job on replacing the top on his mandolin nothing I say is going to change that. But I wish I could change it.

    In regards to the others who made comments very negative comments I might say. I might just say these things: First of all, my camera is incredibly sensitive it's sitting on a very hard formica top so any little sound is amplified immensely. Regarding no support for the neck when filing frets. What you should realize is that every single string puts around 60 foot pounds of pressure on the neck. Multiply that times 8 you can see what kind of foot pound pressure you have under normal conditions. When I'm using the file on the frets I'm probably putting maybe two pounds of pressure if that, on the file. That is a very small percentage compared to the string force. So there's really no need to have any kind of support under the neck whatsoever. In fact I prefer to work wthout a support.

    As far is rolling it around on the top of my workbench. That pad I have there is much softer than it looks in the video and I do shake it out all the time and keep it clean. Regarding the file and someone making the comment about not using a flat file. Obviously you don't know anything about files. Every single file ever made has some sort of curve to it. There are none that are completely flat you always have to turn the concave side up. If you don't, then you don't know how to file frets.

    Guys I realize I'm not perfect. I also know it's the trend these days to just rip people apart on the Internet. Sorry you don't have anything better to do with your time. You might be interested to know that I also took a Lloyd Loar mandolin apart in the mid to late nineties. It belonged to my Uncle Don Brown of the Ozark Mountain Trio. It is currently owned and played by Frank ray as far as I know. That mandolin had been sent back to Gibson 3 times for the neck coming off. Each time they fixed it, it failed within a month. I took it completely apart cleaned the neck joint put it back together and Frank Ray has been quoted as saying its the best of the 24 Loars he has owned. It has never come apart since.

    I imagine I'll get tons more negative comments after posting this. As one of you wisely said, there just NO WAY TO LEVEL FRETS gently.

    In closing I would suggest that any of you could post a video about anything and all of us could pick it apart. My apologies to anyone I've offend. I do not mean to offend you. I'm just trying to explain the video.
    Thanks for the comments Jerry I for one enjoy watching your YT videos and I personally feel that some of the criticism you got in this string was not right -- everyone can have an opinion but some of the negative comments on a total stranger based on a video were not well considered IMO and certainly a well short on politeness.

    Like you say -- one bad feature of the Internet is the aspect where people unload on someone else behind the safety of their username. Not exactly a profile in courage but often it happens just because that is the kind of culture that cyberspace has engendered -- too bad. For what it is worth most all of the folks on this forum are fine people.

    And I think your picking is just fine!

    BTW thanks for responding to my request to do a close up of the Gibson style pick guard clamp on the Gilchrist!
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  11. #58
    Shredded Cheese Authority Emmett Marshall's Avatar
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Hi there Jerry! I want to say that the action on that KM-1500 is by far the easiest on my fingers than any other mandolin in my shed. At each stage of me trying to get it right by sending it off to various places, I just knew it had potential in the sound department. You got it where I had hoped it would be from day one and turned my frustration into joy!

    Can't you just feel all the love around here?
    Weber F5 Bitteroot Octave - "...romantic and very complicated."
    My instruments professionally maintained by...RSW
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE

  12. #59
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    That was a great video. I watched the whole damn thing. Haters gonna hate, especially on the Internet. Thanks for sharing!
    Collings MT
    Weber Gallatin Mandocello

    Language is the armory of the human mind, and at once contains the trophies of its past and the weapons of its future conquests. -Samuel Taylor Coleridge

  13. #60

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Thanks Emmett!

  14. #61

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Thanks Andrew.

  15. #62

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Thanks Bernie. Was glad to show the close up.

  16. #63

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    I thought I would just add this note, though I admit it sounds very coincidental. The fellow that owns that Loar just called me Saturday morning and asked me to repair his Gilhrist. The pick guard is coming loose where it was glued. So obviously he was not to disatisfied.

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  18. #64

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Mr. Rosa,

    I'd also like to thank you for chiming in here. I see you took down the YouTube videos...I guess I don't blame you. As has been pointed out, sometimes videos like that are unfairly criticized.

    Just to clarify, my criticism was not really directed toward your luthery skills, methods or technique. I know nothing about dressing frets or leveling fingerboards. I'm sure your work is top-notch. And as I said earlier, I'm sure you posted the setup videos as a service to others.

    The fault I found was in the second video. Whether simple carelessness or a one-time oversight, it was a cringe-worthy moment for me. It seemed obvious to me that you had forgotten about that single edged razor blade lying the (your) left side of the workbench. Several times during the course of your work, you slid the back of that mandolin directly over the area where the blade was. I'm glad to hear no damage was done and that the customer was satisfied with the work. I know that not everyone agrees with my assessment, but I think that in this particular situation, it was lucky that no damage was done.

    At any rate, the last thing I meant to do was to be mean or hurt anyone's feelings. I just told it like I saw it.

    And as for this comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew DeMarco View Post
    Haters gonna hate, especially on the Internet.
    That may be true for the Internet in general, but it has no relevance here.

  19. #65

    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post
    ... the (your) left side of the workbench.
    Meant to say the (your) right side of the workbench. (Too late to edit)

  20. #66
    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: 23 Loar Setup Video

    Video removed. Maybe I can see it somewhere else?
    We few, we happy few.

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