Fiddle and FFcF formations

[icuker]

Hi, my wife plays fiddle but has a hard time with certain keys. I figure in theory the FFcF
method would work but not being a fiddle player I am not sure. If you could weigh in that
would be helpful. She was a little resistant to the concept when I initially approached her with
it.

[UsuallyPickin]

Absolutely...... with fiddle you lock you index finger over two strings making a 1/5 inversion of the I chord and without releasing that position you have access to an entire scale as well as the IV ,V and VIm chords without moving from that position. So learning closed position playing on a fiddle is a must if you want to play in the less common keys. Then there's this ... fiddles and mandolins are tuned in fifths G/D/A/E however if you continue counting up E/F/G/A/ but go backwards it becomes fourths. If you are on the E and A pair or the A and D pair of strings you can reposition your index finger on the next lower pair at the same level on the fingerboard , and pick up the IV and V chord scales there. As well as double stops relevant to that chord..... sooo.... Capiche? R/

[icuker]

Yeah, I think I understand. So, with fiddle holding two strings with one finger is different than for mandolin. It sounds actually pretty convenient in a way. Any suggestions for encouraging her to give it the ol' college try?

[farmerjones]

Obvious or not, you can only play two adjacent strings from the FFcF formation, if you're on the fiddle. One can also interpolate, the nut becoming one of stops/fingers, for the keys of G, D, and high register A.
One of the first "index finger capo" keys, and one that I seem to play a lot is E. Guitar players seem to like it. Johnny Cash seemed to have a bunch of tunes in E. If you find a right hand close up of some body teaching Orange Blossom Special, that's the I, IV V, in A. The lower register key of A, requires the index finger capo technique. Best of Luck FJ

[farmerjones]

Another thought here: If she has no trouble playing in the keys of D or G, move those finger movements down toward the bridge one finger. Remember, you'll be loosing the index finger as that's becoming your capo. So you'll actually be playing the tune below your index finger. It takes a bit to get your intonation back up to snuff once you first start, but we fiddlers constantly chase our intonation anyway. Some think playing double stop is harder because you have to be so precise. Otherwise your intonation languishes. But I really like it better, because you always have that comparison/harmony factor. It's very obvious when you're in good intonation because the strings in harmony really sing. You get that third tone, and it seems louder. That's the Ol' Fiddler's Magic trick. If you're playing good solid double stops, that fiddle really barks by comparison.

[icuker]

She does get a lot of compliments on her tone and that by long time fiddle players here locally.

[JeffD]

It has been my experience hanging out with fiddlers and taking fiddle lessons for many years, that the fiddlers preferred way to move up the neck is positions. I think this is because we mandolinners can rely on frets.

But theoretically I see no reason why a good fiddler with good intonation could not benefit from FFcP.

[nickster60]

Most problems with tone originate in the bowing hand. Intonation can also contribute to thie off-sounding notes because well they are off. If she doesn't play with a tuner clipped to scroll it is a good practice to do so. It is also beneficial to practice long bow stroke to get a good tone. Practicing in front of a mirror you can also identify if the bow is playing in a perpendicular plane to the strings. That is what give you that lovely screeching cat sound.

[JonZ]

I am around a lot of string players, and my impression is that they first master the types of scales in Flesch or Galamian, because they lend themselves to playing in tune, which is a struggle on unfretted stringed instruments. Bass players go with Smandl for the same reason. After these are satisfactory, they might move into FFCP patterns, but the other scales are their foundation. I have only really seen jazz players use FFCP on violin.

FFCP gives you a simple system for organizing scale patterns, but they will sound like crap on a violin if you can't play them in tune. I talked with one of the top pro jazz violinists about this, and he strongly believes that great classical technique, with classical scale forms, is the foundation of great playing in any genre.

[JeffD]

Frets make a huge difference.

[SincereCorgi]

It has been my experience hanging out with fiddlers and taking fiddle lessons for many years, that the fiddlers preferred way to move up the neck is positions. I think this is because we mandolinners can rely on frets.

This has been my experience, too. It takes a long time to sort out your intonation and establish the 'frame' of the hand just with open strings, and then you have to start over almost from scratch when you first move up to third position (or whatever position you happen to learn next). Really advanced players will be able to play out of any intermediate position, but by then they've already establish the mental geography of the fingerboard and will probably use simpler shifting strategies for improvisation than they would on a carefully-rehearsed piece. I can shift patterns all over the mandolin neck without a fuss, but violin is a whole different thing.