Mandolin setup/relief/height

[ngmandolinman]

Hey guys! Wanted to ask all of you a couple of questions regarding mandolin setup. I've recently started working on some of Chris Thile songs and I know he uses a very low action. I'm talking about an action you only need the weight of your fingers to make the string contact the fret. What kind of specs at the 12th and 1st fret is considered a very light action? Does neck relief have a big part into getting a action low? What would the neck relief be set at?

Thanks

[sunburst]

It's all interrelated; string height, string gauge, frets, neck relief.
For the lowest possible action, the neck relief will need to be dialed in, and if the frets aren't nearly perfectly level to start with, that will be a problem. If you can get the action less than 1/16" at the 12th fret on all strings and still play cleanly without excessive buzz, you've done pretty well.
String height at the nut should be set to "zero" in any case, meaning the height of a fret. A good method of doing that can be found on Frets.com.

So, you need to start with a good fret job including level, well crowned frets on a level fingerboard, proper string height at the nut, then you can alternately lower the bridge height and adjust the neck relief until you get just the right combination for the lowest action with the least buzz. Understand that an instrument set up like that hasn't got much room for movement, and slight changes in temperature and humidity can make drastic changes on the sound of the instrument. It can be a fiddly situation requiring constant attention and adjustment to maintain proper relief and string height, and that is why most players accept their action a little higher than the lowest possible playable height.

[ngmandolinman]

Thanks John for posting!

[rockies]

Well, I think that is the best answer I've ever seen to that question John !! As with almost anything the preparation before the setup to make sure the mechanics are proper leads to success. Great answer.
Dave

[Tavy]

+1 on Johns answer.

Don't bother measuring action at fret #1: it is what it is, get the nut right and it takes care of itself.
Personally I don't bother measuring the relief either - just enough to detect that there is some should be about right.

Then if the fretwork is spot on, and there are no "humps" at the neck/body join, the action should go down to around 1.25mm without trouble: provided you don't want to thump the strings too hard chopping etc.
More muscular players will likely want a 1.5mm action (John's 1/16").

[pops1]

I am on of those finicky player that keep a very low action, one of the things i have done is to file in relief for the G string side so the E side can remain flat for lower action. It also means that during a show i may have to raise the strings up as John says climate changes can affect you at any time so you will need to be able to deal with it. For me i need the low action and prefer the light touch, it is easier on the arthritis in my wrists.

[High Lonesome Valley]

Ditto Tavy and pops1 on fretwork issues.

I never measure. I just determine how hard the instrument will be played, play it just a bit harder until it slightly buzzes the strings, and there you go.

I would suggest you take your mando to a good setup person who understands that setup parameters are fluid to each individual instrument and really can't be codified in a standard of measurements.

I know manufacturers use gauges, etc., but that's why even new instruments need to be set up. That's why any reputable dealer offers free setup "after a month of breaking your instrument in". They really give you a month hoping you'll not come back and tie up their luthier's bench.

[ngmandolinman]

Thanks guys!