Did she really make this?

[John Kinn]

She also says she likes to talk about mandolins and banjos so give her a call...She posted her phone number and you can ask her all of these questions and hopefully get some true answers, myself I don`t give a hoot...BUT I had a mandolin build from scratch (no Kit) for under 500 bucks and it is an F model and sounds great, it all depends on what the builder wants to charge for his/her labor...I know nothing about kits but have often wondered if I would like to try one, maybe one day....

Pm me the name of the builder, please!

[allenhopkins]

Pm me the name of the builder, please!

Apparently her name is Clarinda, she lives in Greenbriar AR, and you can contact her through eBay (link is in the first post on the thread).

And we can quibble over whether she's the "builder" or the "assembler," right?

[Jeff Mando]

I had a mandolin build from scratch (no Kit) for under 500 bucks and it is an F model and sounds great, it all depends on what the builder wants to charge for his/her labor...

There was a recent thread about a father/son team who build F styles and sold them on eBay for the highest bid. Can't remember the name, but most of the bidding stopped in the $500-650 range. If I remember correctly they had built around 50 mandolins. They looked really nice, too.

I think there will alway be somebody operating outside of the normal circles, maybe with a mindset of not competing with the "big boys" and not really putting a working wage mentally on their time. An advanced hobbyist, if you will. Having fun getting their mandolins out there and being played...

Don't know if this relates. I can take my car to NAPA and they do a great job, but everytime any repair is going to be $700-800, ($50-75 hr) it never fails. I've got a local guy who is an excellent mechanic and works for a garage during the day and in the evenings and weekends he is available to repair cars on his own. The same repair will be $200-300 "after hours" and he is happy to get the work. And I am happy to save some $$$.

[bart mcneil]

Rather than attempt to embarrass the woman, why not just invite her to join the Mandolin Cafe. She sounds like an enthusiastic musician. Perhaps she needs support more than a lecture.

[Perry Babasin]

Just a little plug for Clarinda... She is a reputable ebay seller, and actually does pretty good set-ups. She advertises that she likes to talk mandolin and she does, she doesn't just drop ship product. I don't know about this home-made model, but I have bought a couple of mandolins from her and she was forthright, communicative, and responsive... I would definitely buy from her again, but probably not this mandolin... NFI-BTW - I bought my 600 (in the avatar) from her.

[John Kinn]

Apparently her name is Clarinda, she lives in Greenbriar AR, and you can contact her through eBay (link is in the first post on the thread).

And we can quibble over whether she's the "builder" or the "assembler," right?

I was thinking of the builder who made original F-style mandolins that sounded good and cost $500. THAT is a good deal!

[Cary Fagan]

Well, one more comment. If I were the seller (and I've restored and sold about 25 instruments) I would want to see this thread and would find it very instructive. I think it's perfectly fair to comment on the practises of an ebay seller (and I acknowledge here we don't all agree).

Nor do I think we have lectured her. Although I do feel a bit lectured myself!

Mind you, I don't mind disagreement.

[Bernie Daniel]

Well, one more comment. If I were the seller (and I've restored and sold about 25 instruments) I would want to see this thread and would find it very instructive. I think it's perfectly fair to comment on the practises of an ebay seller (and I acknowledge here we don't all agree).

Nor do I think we have lectured her. Although I do feel a bit lectured myself!

Mind you, I don't mind disagreement.

Just because some do not agree with your assessment means you were "lectured"? That sounds a bit "thin skinned" IMO. You started the thread questioning the ethics of a seller so I think it is unreasonable to expect that everyone should accept your view point.

Personally, I think the seller might benefit from acknowledging the kit origins of the mandolin because that lets her use the "reputation' of the kit maker -- a company that has successfully made and sold perhaps hundreds of mandolin parts.

Not everyone cares who carved the wood as long as the mandolin is put together right.

[Cary Fagan]

I was basically joking. And as I said, I don't mind disagreements. I don't expect all people to think the same way. I don't mind what anyone has said here, whatever I think of the individual comments. This post was about honesty in advertising which I think is a subject worth thinking about. I've made all my points but others are free to comment if they wish.

[Bernie Daniel]

I was basically joking. And as I said, I don't mind disagreements. I don't expect all people to think the same way. I don't mind what anyone has said here, whatever I think of the individual comments. This post was about honesty in advertising which I think is a subject worth thinking about. I've made all my points but others are free to comment if they wish.

OK well never mind then! I notice in your first post that you had put together a kit yourself -- which one? One interesting thing I learned from this thread is some kits cost much less than I had realized -- e.g., as low as $150. Hard to believe.

[Cary Fagan]

Hey Bernie, I built a Saga kit, which costs less than that. I tried to make it look less like a kit build by reshaping the neck and the fretboard end, etc. You can see it here:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...99#post1287899

I'm pretty pleased with the way it came out. My biggest error was getting the neck angle too low but a low bridge has pretty much dealt with the problem now.

[Tom Haywood]

I'm still trying to see the difference between a complete collection of parts that will make a mandolin, and a "kit".

[9lbShellhamer]

The ad is a tiny bit misleading...implying she hand-carved the top, etc, and she doesn't disclose it's from a kit.

I personally do an insane amount of research before I buy things. I mean...if someone is risky enough to buy a mando sight unseen from an unknown builder that's their choice.

Her reviews seem pretty positive though. I know she used to sell a lot of factory blems etc. There have been a ton of cafe posts on other items she's sold in the past...most of the posts with some sort of negative tone.

[Bernie Daniel]

Hey Bernie, I built a Saga kit, which costs less than that. I tried to make it look less like a kit build by reshaping the neck and the fretboard end, etc. You can see it here:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...99#post1287899

I'm pretty pleased with the way it came out. My biggest error was getting the neck angle too low but a low bridge has pretty much dealt with the problem now.

Very nice I think I might have looked at that thread actually. I especially like the finish on the top -- it has a cool vintage look to it.

[Jeff Mando]

I'm still trying to see the difference between a complete collection of parts that will make a mandolin, and a "kit".

Good point, Tom. I would have to think it comes down to the ability and craftsmanship of the person putting it together. Probably most noticable in the details, such as the finish quality and how the top is carved (if it is indeed, carved).

For example, most Fender electric guitars can be assembled with a screw driver and sellers on eBay will sell you every part that comprises a Fender. If I buy the parts and screw it together, do I have a genuine Fender guitar? Not sure, certainly not a factory Fender guitar. If I screw the parts together, does that make me a luthier? Of course not.

Another gray area with vintage Fender guitars is that the parts are modular, i.e., interchangable. What if someone had a 1964 Fender Stratocaster that was missing the original neck and then a genuine 1964 Fender Stratocaster neck was purchased on eBay with the correct date, finish, etc. If you screw them together, do you have an "original" 1964 Fender Stratocaster or some kind of a mongrel? Obviously, it didn't leave the factory that way, and nobody would know, but I bet a lot of guitars sold for big money probably have a similar history....(just realized this belongs on the stratocaster forum.....oops)

[sunburst]

I'm still trying to see the difference between a complete collection of parts that will make a mandolin, and a "kit".

I think it comes down to decision making. If I design the mandolin, select the materials, select the construction methods, etc.etc. then complete the mandolin, I've built a mandolin. If someone else designs the mandolin, selects the materials, selects the construction methods, etc.etc. and I complete the mandolin, I've assembled a kit.
As I've said, it's an exercise in line drawing. Where do we draw the line? As I see it, it's not so much a line as a shading from black to white, so to speak.

[Cary Fagan]

That makes sense, John, but what if a person builds a mandolin from scratch according to Simminoff plans and instructions. He or she isn't designing it but I'd still call that being a luthier.

As for a kit, I don't know how to define 'kit' generally but the saga and IV kits definitely qualify. The neck is shaped, fretboard installed and fretted. The sides are not only bent, they are already attached to the top. The f holes are cut. Etc. There is still a lot of work to do and how it sounds will depend in large part on how you finish graduating the top and bottom (my kit didn't need a lot) and fit and shape the tone bars. I doubt they can sound brilliant, but they can be pretty good. You learn a lot and it feels like a real accomplishment, I don't take any of that away. But having built one flat top from scratch, I certainly know the difference in time and effort.

[Pete Jenner]

I don't see a problem with her saying she built it herself. The pictures tell the story. If I were her I would have blamed someone else.

[Bernie Daniel]

Good point, Tom. I would have to think it comes down to the ability and craftsmanship of the person putting it together. Probably most noticable in the details, such as the finish quality and how the top is carved (if it is indeed, carved).

For example, most Fender electric guitars can be assembled with a screw driver and sellers on eBay will sell you every part that comprises a Fender. If I buy the parts and screw it together, do I have a genuine Fender guitar? Not sure, certainly not a factory Fender guitar. If I screw the parts together, does that make me a luthier? Of course not.

Another gray area with vintage Fender guitars is that the parts are modular, i.e., interchangable. What if someone had a 1964 Fender Stratocaster that was missing the original neck and then a genuine 1964 Fender Stratocaster neck was purchased on eBay with the correct date, finish, etc. If you screw them together, do you have an "original" 1964 Fender Stratocaster or some kind of a mongrel? Obviously, it didn't leave the factory that way, and nobody would know, but I bet a lot of guitars sold for big money probably have a similar history....(just realized this belongs on the stratocaster forum.....oops)

Another instrument like that is a banjo. I found a 1929 Gibson TB-3 Mastertone neck (it was cut for a 2 piece flange) and I add glued back on some mahogany, and then re-cut it for a 1 -piece flange and re-fretted it. After that I just had to find a '60's era Gibson flange , rim, flat-head tone ring, bridge, resonator and a Grover Presto tailpiece and vola I have a "vintage" Gibson tenor banjo. Or something that looks exactly like one anyway. Except for the woodworking on the neck this was all done with wrenches, screwdrivers and pliers! And no it did not make me into a luthier -- but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express.

[Bernie Daniel]

That makes sense, John, but what if a person builds a mandolin from scratch according to Simminoff plans and instructions. He or she isn't designing it but I'd still call that being a luthier.....

For sure!

P.S. just bought a Saga kit for icks!

[Jeff Mando]

And no it did not make me into a luthier -- but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express.

Ya gotta love that big breakfast buffet!!!

[Bernie Daniel]

For sure!

P.S. just bought a Saga kit for icks!

I mean kicks!

[Petrus]

I mean kicks!

Well that depends on how the finish turns out!

[Petrus]

Another gray area with vintage Fender guitars is that the parts are modular, i.e., interchangable. What if someone had a 1964 Fender Stratocaster that was missing the original neck and then a genuine 1964 Fender Stratocaster neck was purchased on eBay with the correct date, finish, etc. If you screw them together, do you have an "original" 1964 Fender Stratocaster or some kind of a mongrel?

I've looked into this a bit (not necessarily for just Strats) but so far have found that it would cost you about the same amount of money to buy the parts separately as to purchase an assembled instrument, depending on the specific situation, so there doesn't seem to be the amount of savings involved that one would think.

Also, what's to stop a quasi-luthier from taking a kit and making a few minor modifications to it (doing a little bit of sanding here and there), then calling it hand made? The kit has been uniquely modified by hand.

[jim simpson]

Speaking of making a kit look like your own, I think it would be cool if the kit makers included a blank oversized headstock. One could then make a snakehead or any shape one would want.