Mothers micro-polishing glaze

[Pete Jenner]

The story so far:

I have applied about 15 coats of Colortone water based brushing varnish to my mandola and have been looking for ways to make it shine. I have seen Meguiar's swirl remover recommended here a few times and so with that in mind I went to my local automobile accessories shop to purchase some. They had a large range of meguiar's products but not the swirl remover.

The chap behind the counter told me that most meguiar's products contain silicon and the Mothers range of products contained no silicon. He told me that Mothers micro-polishing glaze had no silicon in it so I bought a bottle.

I applied a bit to a small area of the back of the mandola and sure enough it produced a lovely shine. Then I noticed that the polished bit squeaked when it came into contact with the carpet on my bench. In my experience (limited though it is) squeak means silicon. I may well be wrong.

Does anyone have experience with this stuff? If so, does it contain silicon?

Thanks in advance.

[Bill Snyder]

The MSDS for it does not mention silicon, but then the MSDS for the Meguiar's does not mention silicon either.
That does not necessarily mean that they don't contain it.

[Nevin]

Look up the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product. If it is sold in the US as well as Australia you should be able to find it online. If it has silicon in it it should be listed, as well as handy things like any safety precautions you should be using.

[Pete Jenner]

I couldn't find the MSDS but have now. For some things google search beats duckduckgo. As Bill says, no mention of silicon.
It could be a goer.

[Dave Cohen]

Uhh, I think the word is "silicones". "Silicon" means elemental silicon; "silicones" are organosilicon compounds. Big difference. The silicones are the compounds that make repair of film finishes difficult or impossible.

[Pete Jenner]

Thanks Dave. My ignorance is boundless. I thought it was elemental silicon I should be looking for but have obviously got the wrong end of the stick. Can you
elaborate?

EDIT: I just did some duckduckgoing. I think I get it now. So my new question is - Are there any silicones in this product?

[Timbofood]

Duck duck going? Does that mean a later project for you might be going to be a "Duck" ?

[Steve Sorensen]

Here is the MSDS sheet -- http://apkgroup.com/msds/English/Mot...08-2013%29.pdf

Primary ingredient is Calcined kaolin clay. Here is the Wiki info --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaolinite

"Aluminum silicates"

Steve

[Pete Jenner]

Aha. Thanks Steve but that's all greek to me. Does this mean it shouldn't be used? Is a silicate a silicone?

[Pete Jenner]

Duck duck going? Does that mean a later project for you might be going to be a "Duck" ?

Been there done that.

[sunburst]

Is a silicate a silicone?

Silicate is an ion, so to speak. In other words aluminum silicate would be AlSi or some such formula, and it would be a molecule containing aluminum and silica ions bonded together. It would be s solid, and if I'm not mistaken, it would be an abrasive solid in this case, similar to the abrasive on some sandpaper, but much finer for use as a polish. Unfortunately, it looks like we need to know a bit about chemistry to understand a MSDS when we're trying to use it to identify substances in polishes that might adversely affect finishes.

[Pete Jenner]

After further reading, I'm starting to suspect that it is only the synthetic polymers of silicon that we should be avoiding. No? Are these long chain polymer type thingys?

[fatt-dad]

There's plenty of silicon in dirt, glass, etc. Quartz, feldspar and other such minerals are loaded with silicon. I don't think these are the solids that are unfavorable for instruments.

f-d

[Pete Jenner]

Good point.

[Dave Cohen]

Silicate is an ion, so to speak. In other words aluminum silicate would be AlSi or some such formula, and it would be a molecule containing aluminum and silica ions bonded together. It would be s solid, and if I'm not mistaken, it would be an abrasive solid in this case, similar to the abrasive on some sandpaper, but much finer for use as a polish. Unfortunately, it looks like we need to know a bit about chemistry to understand a MSDS when we're trying to use it to identify substances in polishes that might adversely affect finishes.

Almost, John, but a few minor technical corrections. A monatomic Si anion would be a silicide, not a silicate. The neosilicate anion is [SiO4]4-. There are other silicates, such as the sorosilicate anion, [Si2O7]6-. Also, ions generally don't combine to form molecules. Rather, they form ionic compounds, w/ distinct positions in the crystal lattice for each anion and cation. Just about every abrasive substance that I can think of is a crystalline ionic compound.

[Pribar]

Almost, John, but a few minor technical corrections. A monatomic Si anion would be a silicide, not a silicate. The neosilicate anion is [SiO4]4-. There are other silicates, such as the sorosilicate anion, [Si2O7]6-. Also, ions generally don't combine to form molecules. Rather, they form ionic compounds, w/ distinct positions in the crystal lattice for each anion and cation. Just about every abrasive substance that I can think of is a crystalline ionic compound.

This is why I got D 's in chemistry, I recognise the words, but strung together like that they make me feel like a mutt trying to do algebra...

[Pete Jenner]

Almost, John, but a few minor technical corrections. A monatomic Si anion would be a silicide, not a silicate. The neosilicate anion is [SiO4]4-. There are other silicates, such as the sorosilicate anion, [Si2O7]6-. Also, ions generally don't combine to form molecules. Rather, they form ionic compounds, w/ distinct positions in the crystal lattice for each anion and cation. Just about every abrasive substance that I can think of is a crystalline ionic compound.

So should I use this s...tuff or not?

[sunburst]

So should I use this s...tuff or not?

I don't know...
The "aluminum silicates" shouldn't be a problem though.
Here's what I've done in the past, trying to get to the bottom of what is in a product. Look for a toll-free phone number on the package, call them up and ask the tech who answers the phone. Surprisingly, when I've done that, I've gotten someone knowledgeable who could answer my questions (at MaGuairs and at McFadden at least).

[Pete Jenner]

Thanks John.
I just got an email reply from a technical support fellow at Mothers.
Here is the text of it:

Dear Peter,

No, there are no silicones in that product, and it is safe for fresh paint to be used for gloss and protection until the paint is cured.

Did you have a different application or concern?
Sincerely,

[name removed].

--------------

[name removed]

Public Relations & Technical Support

Mothers® Polishes•Waxes•Cleaners


I've told him what I intend to use it for. Awaiting further info.

[Timbofood]

How nice they got back to you so quickly! Silicate, silicon, silicone, silly me!

[Pete Jenner]

That's on the silicide.

[Timbofood]

Absolutely!
Should have said....."absillutely"

[DHopkins]

Almost, John, but a few minor technical corrections. A monatomic Si anion would be a silicide, not a silicate. The neosilicate anion is [SiO4]4-. There are other silicates, such as the sorosilicate anion, [Si2O7]6-. Also, ions generally don't combine to form molecules. Rather, they form ionic compounds, w/ distinct positions in the crystal lattice for each anion and cation. Just about every abrasive substance that I can think of is a crystalline ionic compound.

Huh?

[Greg Mirken]

Regarding Meguiar's products- they have 2 lines, so to speak. The professional products [in the tan bottles] will say "PAINTABLE" on the label. This means there are no silicones in the formula. The home-handyman products [purple bottles] often contain silicone.

[HoGo]

Simply put the bad guy is silicone, which is artificially made organic compound containing silicon (Si) in it. Common anorganic compounds of silicon (no E here) are found in many minerals like quartz, sand etc and also glass (which is made of quartz). Many of them when finely ground are excellent abrasive particles and so they are used in abrasive compounds, That's where word sandpaper comes from.