Pre War?

[FLATROCK HILL]

Silly question here I'm sure, but just which war are we talking about?

Some antiques are referred to as 'Antebellum', which I believe translates to prewar. Despite that broad, literal translation, that term invariably means pre Civil War.

I know when someone says they have a 'prewar' Martin guitar, they mean it is pre WWII.

I've seen a lot of early and mid 'Teens' Gibson mandolins referred to as prewar. I just assumed that in that case, the meaning was pre WWI.

So...When it comes to mandolins, are we always talking about WWII? (Told you it was silly.)

[Jeff Mando]

pre WWII aka "the Golden Era" between WWI & WWII, as far as Gibsons and Martins are concerned.

On an unrelated note, I remember a guitar magazine article years ago by George Gruhn where he listed the 10 Best Electric Guitars Of All Time--the most recent was a 1959....

[allenhopkins]

...When it comes to mandolins, are we always talking about WWII?...

Pretty much.

[Petrus]

So...When it comes to mandolins, are we always talking about WWII? (Told you it was silly.)

No. The Martin company has been around since 1833, and even if they weren't making mandos back then, others were (invariably bowlbacks.) So you could have an Antebellum (pre-U.S. Civil War) mandolin. Otherwise, as you said, pre-War means pre-WW2 ... for now (cue ominous dystopian soundtrack.)

And of course, an Antebellum (pre-Civil War) mando would also be a pre-WW2 instrument, logically. (Just in case there are any wise guys out there.)

[EdHanrahan]

... So you could have an Antebellum (pre-U.S. Civil War) mandolin. ...

Logically yes, but in reality not likely. Mandolins were uncommon -some have said unknown- until the mass immigration of Italians w/ their bowlbacks starting in, I think, the 1880s & 90s.

(Then Orville begat the arch-top, which begat the mandolin orchestra, which begat massive sales to proper young ladies, which begat us having a nice selection of teens A-styles at affordable prices!)

For the record, Jack Black's mandolin in the "Cold Mountain" Civil War movie drew some negative comments in these parts, not for the playing but for its presence at all! Or did someone else play the mandolin?

[Mike Bunting]

Logically yes, but in reality not likely. Mandolins were uncommon -some have said unknown- until the mass immigration of Italians w/ their bowlbacks starting in, I think, the 1880s & 90s.

(Then Orville begat the arch-top, which begat the mandolin orchestra, which begat massive sales to proper young ladies, which begat us having a nice selection of teens A-styles at affordable prices!)




For the record, Jack Black's mandolin in the "Cold Mountain" Civil War movie drew some negative comments in these parts, not for the playing but for its presence at all! Or did someone else play the mandolin?

I think you mean Jack White, but Norman Blake played the mandolin on the sound track.

[Petrus]

Logically yes, but in reality not likely. Mandolins were uncommon -some have said unknown- until the mass immigration of Italians w/ their bowlbacks starting in, I think, the 1880s & 90s.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that in general, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few were brought over before then. Someone would have to check old newspaper ads from the 1860s probably to see if any showed up.

For the record, Jack Black's mandolin in the "Cold Mountain" Civil War movie drew some negative comments in these parts, not for the playing but for its presence at all! Or did someone else play the mandolin?

I'll second Mike Bunting that you're probably thinking of Jack White. Jack Black played an electric guitar in The School of Rock.

[EdHanrahan]

White, Black.... Duuuh!!! Hey, it was past my bedtime!

[Jeff Mando]

And of course, an Antebellum (pre-Civil War) mando would also be a pre-WW2 instrument, logically. (Just in case there are any wise guys out there.)

Like that grade-school exercise in semantics: "You were named after George Washington" "No, my name is Jeff"....."Well, you were born after George Washington, so your parents had to have named you AFTER him!"

[allenhopkins]

...The Martin company has been around since 1833, and even if they weren't making mandos back then, others were (invariably bowlbacks.) So you could have an Antebellum (pre-U.S. Civil War) mandolin….

Martin started building bowl-back mandolins in the late 1890's. I've never seen a US-made bowl-back that antedated the famous Estudiantes Espinolas (Spanish Students) bandurria concert tour of c. 1880, generally "credited" with starting the mandolin fad in America. Mandolins are mentioned in American writings since colonial times, but I'd venture that they were all imports from Mediterranean countries. Of course, an individual luthier may have turned out a mandolin on special order, but that would be a one-of case, as far as I know.

[Tom Coletti]

I can only imagine how confusing and anachronistic the prewar instrument owners were to those around them in the 1920s and 30s:

"Hey Lloyd, check out this Martin; it's a prewar."

"Pre-which war?"

"World War Two."

"... When was World War One?!"

"No, I think they're talking about the Great War."

"When did they rename it?!?"

"Probably after the second one."

"The second Great War or the second World War?"

"Well both, I suppose."

"So are we talking about four wars here?"

"No, two."

"But who's on first?"

"Yes."

"What?"

"Jesus Christ, Lloyd, just shut up and drink your booze before they legalize it again."

--Tom