Tuner adjustment?

[ianbarton]

I am still learning about mandolin equipment and construction, and I don't know what brand tuners my eastman has, but I have noticed some of them seem more stiff and hard to turn than others (in particular the e strings). Is adjusting them so that they all have the same amount of resistance just as easy a tightening and loosening the screws in the middle of the gears? Or is it more of a lubrication issue? Just want to know the proper way before I attempt and screw something up.

[UsuallyPickin]

Next time you change strings add a single drop of light machine oil, 3 in 1 is a brand, to the worm and gear interface and work it around the gear in both directions. Be careful of loosening the machine screws because they are known to fall out and it usually isn't in the case. Stiffness in tuners can be caused by accumulated gunk in the gears but that takes years under "normal" circumstances. Tight tuners also wear in over time. There are several discussions on this topic in the "back files" . R/

[ianbarton]

Thanks! I have a new set of string I want to try out fairly soon, so when i switch them out I will give that a shot.

[Ron McMillan]

Quality of tuners varies a great deal, and I believe some Eastman models at the lower end of the range suffer from being built down to a price. In my opinion tuners are too often ignored when it comes to making upgrades aimed at improving an instrument's playability. Replacing tuner sets that have standard post spacing is pretty simple, and can make a big, big difference to how much fun an instrument is to have around.

ron

[ianbarton]

Thanks Ron, I have definitely considered that option. At the moment, I want to see if I can get these working a bit smoother because as of now, they seem pretty good (well compared to my previous rogue rental anyway). If they continue to be a problem I will certainly look into replacements.

[Joey Anchors]

Agreed I would try oiling the current tuners first.

[allenhopkins]

…But I wouldn't use machine oil, rather Tri-Flo. Less chance of residue.

[sunburst]

I second Tri-Flo for tuner lubrication. The liquid evaporates (rather than soaking permanently into the wood of the peghead or attracting dust and "stuff" to build up and cause problems) and leaves a dry lubricant behind.

Usually, tuners feel tight because of inaccurately drilled holes in the peghead. If all four posts of a 4-on-a-plate mandolin tuner don't fit centered in the holes, the gears can bind and cause hard turning. If the tuner posts are (as intended) in a straight line and equally spaced, and the holes are (as intended) in a straight line and equally spaced, and those spacings are the same for the holes and the posts, the tuners will turn as easily as they are capable of turning under string tension as long as the posts are properly supported by correctly sized bushings in the peghead (the bushing can be the wood itself in rare cases, but more often metal bushings are used).
So, if the holes are not in a straight line and equally spaced, if the tuner posts are not in a straight line and equally spaced (something that can happen when tuner plates are bent, twisted, or otherwise damaged), if the bushings are poorly installed or the wrong size, of if the spacing of the holes and posts don't match, those things and probably others can cause 4-on-a-plate mandolin tuners to be hard to turn.
Somewhat ironically, Waverly tuners, since they are built to tighter tolerances than many other tuners, are among the least forgiving of misalignment, so the smooth, snug feel we get when we take them out of the box and spin the buttons of the uninstalled tuners, that feel that makes people feel so good about the hundreds of dollars they spent on them, is because of the very thing that makes them so difficult to turn after they are installed if the alignment and spacing of the holes in the peghead are off. The tighter tolerances lead to binding with a smaller amount of misalignment than looser tolerances.
Gotoh deluxe tuners were my favorite for years, until they changed a bunch of things and they didn't work as well. They had (and perhaps still have) pretty loose fit between the gears and the plates, so they feel loose and sloppy when we turn them uninstalled. They even rattle with no string tension on them because of the looseness. String them up, however, and string tension "takes up the slack" and the loose feel and rattle go away. They will turn more easily when misaligned than nearly any other tuner, if the tuner set is good, because it takes more misalignment to get them to bind. (The last few sets I used were not very good. I hope they are better again now.)

So, try a tiny bit of Tri-Flo on them and see if they improve. If you decide to replace them, consider a tuner set with more space between the gears and the plates.

[ianbarton]

Thanks John! very imformative! Lets hope its just a matter of some tri-flo.

[hank]

Ian you can find Tri-flo in bike shops,etc. in a small pocket pen size with a needle tip for more accurate placement. If the Tri-flo doesn't help and you don't have allianment problems as Sunburst pointed out you might try using a drill motor with a button driver to help wear the worm drive in a little faster.
Another great item for string changes you can pick up at a hobby supply is a 1" 409 Anderson artist brush. The bristles are stiff enough to allow you to remove the dust and funk from hard to reach areas without scratching your mandolins wood finish.
Graphite is another lubricant that you may want to add to your tweaking arsenal either in pencil lead or from the tube found in the key cutting department of Wally World,etc.. Dry lubricant sparingly applied to your nut slots can help smooth out some of the imperfection of string guage/slot dimensions.
If you have a screw that won't remain torqued as usually pickin mentioned a tiny drop of Locktite very carefully applied to the threads will do the trick. There are many strengths of Locktite(color coded)so make sure you use only the remove able strength not permenant strength.

[DHopkins]

I think they still make two kinds of Tri-Flo. Try to get the dry one. Less chance of leaving offensive residue. It's been my experience that most bike ships usually carry the "wet" one.

[EdHanrahan]

Thanks to all you good folks, but mostly Paul Hostetter, Tri-Flow has become my all-purpose miracle lubricant for anything that shouldn't get oily, even if it is the wet one from the bike shop. Works really well on balky storm windows, both the aluminum and the vinyl types!

And speaking of tuner adjustment...
http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

[ianbarton]

Thanks everyone for the help! Just out of curiosity, Would a marine dry lubricant like McLube work too? I work at West Marine and therefore get a nice discount on products (granted Ill have to see if my discount is any cheaper than the smallest tri-flo). Dont expect anyone to have experience with this necessarily, but just wondering if any "dry" lubricant would work?

[Mike Arakelian]

Unfortunately, the MD315 does not have a reputation for using "good" tuners. I use Tri-Flo once or twice a year, and it along with general use has loosened the tuners up to where they are acceptable. I've considered replacing them with something better like Grover 309's, but it isn't really a necessity. So long as they hold tune, and they do, I can live with them. My point is that they will get better with time and use.

[EdHanrahan]

... just wondering if any "dry" lubricant would work?

Guessing that most simply aren't familiar enough w/ McLube or others but, considering Tri-Flow's generally low cost, I wouldn't mess with success. Meaning: Do you really want to experiment on an instrument that may cost 100 times more than the lube itself?

[kkmm]

I have tried this once and it seems to work for me.
Remove the strings that are tied to the stiff tuners, lubricate the tuners and use a electric string winder tool to spin the stiff tuner for 10 seconds clock wise, then 10 seconds counter clock wise to see it makes it less stiff.
My brand new mandolin has stiff tuners, I had to use the string winder to turn them, too hard with just fingers.
Note: I hand made a small string winder that is inserted in the electric screw driver and it works great for me, especially when changing strings requiring to turn each string for 3 to 4 tuning pin turns (multiply that by 14 x 8 to get number of turns you have to turn).