What's the interest for a Bluegrass lyrics app for iPhone/iPad?

[bluegrassguru]

Hi everyone,

I’m a bluegrass fanatic and play banjo, mando, guitar, bass, etc. I’m also a long-time computer programmer. Over the summer I had time to make an app I’ve always wanted for myself to help keep track of all the songs I like to play. I also built in a feature to quickly search the Internet for songs so I can display them right in my app without getting all the annoying pop up ads.

The app, Bluegrass Guru, is nearly finished and working really well. Before I release it though, I want to make sure others would actually be interested in it. The basic app will be completely free. It includes 100+ common bluegrass jamming songs and also has a built-in Internet search so you can add lots of other songs to your personal list of songs. I’m also planning to add in basic tips for jamming etiquette.

I’ve been testing the app and it’s helped me memorize a bunch of new song lyrics. It’s handy to have when I sing to my 5 yr old daughter at bedtime too, which is where I get most of my daily playing time in. It’s also a great reference when my mind goes blank at a jam and it’s my turn to choose a song to play (no, I don’t usually reference the lyrics, just my favorite song list).

I want to keep this whole thing completely legal by properly licensing copyrighted song lyrics so that song writers and publishers are paid royalties. At the same time, I want this to be a great resource for anyone wanting to have a list of common bluegrass songs and their own personal favorites anywhere they are.

Making initial song royalty payments for the app is a lot more expensive than I originally thought it would be. The extra features of the app (things like set lists, built-in metronome/tuner, etc.) will be small in-app purchases, which will hopefully cover the continuing royalty and maintenance costs.

You can see more information about the app and screenshots on the Bluegrass Guru website: http://bluegrassguru.com/

Before I go any farther with this whole idea, what kind of interest do you think this would get from the bluegrass community? Is this something you would personally like and use?

I know I could take this and make it a generic app that covers any genre of music, but I really want to have something incredibly useful for bluegrass … to help promote the awesome acoustic bluegrass sound and drive to more people through technology.

Thanks in advance for any feedback you might have. If you want to be included on the mailing list when the app is released, be sure to sign up on the website.

Thank you!

Boyd

[CMoreno923]

If I had an iPhone I would definitely use this. I sometimes find myself looking at my phone to see if I remember the lyrics. I think what you're doing is a great idea but unfortunately it might not be completely accessible. I feel that more often than not people know the lyrics and if they don't they'll fake it!

[bluegrassguru]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm most familiar with iOS programming, so that's where I've started. If I get it released and it seems to do well enough, I'd take it to Android as well, because I know there are both out there. The biggest hurdle right now is figuring out a way to do it all legally since such a large portion of bluegrass music is copyrighted.

In my experience the app has still been pretty useful even just as a reference to my favorite songs at a jam, so I may release it initially as that type of an app. Thanks again!

[dwc]

Would it be difficult to add chords? Something that is the app equivalent to the bluegrass realbook that I could have on an iPad would be something that would help out in jams. It would also be something I would be willing to pay for.

[bluegrassguru]

Chords wouldn't be that hard to add though many fake books encourage people to learn the chords by listening to recordings and practice to anticipate the chord and when to change. They also suggest learning that way because people frequently sing songs in different keys based on their vocal range. The good news on chords is that the lyrics are editable, so you could always type in the chords if you wanted them for certain songs. All that being said, if I can secure licenses to the songs, it wouldn't be hard to provide a chord option.

[dwc]

Chords wouldn't be that hard to add though many fake books encourage people to learn the chords by listening to recordings and practice to anticipate the chord and when to change. They also suggest learning that way because people frequently sing songs in different keys based on their vocal range. The good news on chords is that the lyrics are editable, so you could always type in the chords if you wanted them for certain songs. All that being said, if I can secure licenses to the songs, it wouldn't be hard to provide a chord option.

Learning by ear is wonderful, in theory. In practice I find that at jams I am constantly having to remind musicians of the chord progressions (or teach the progressions to newbies). I actually have a book that I give to jam participants with chords, melody and lyrics (totally for free and for educational purposes only). If I could give it to them on an iPad instead of a 3-ring binder, that would be great.

I know that any chord progression will be simply one of many possibilities with countless variations, but this is also true for lyrics. My "Nine Pound Hammer" is not like anyone else's in terms of lyrics.

Perhaps rather than G,C,D you could use 1,4,5. This would allow for transposition and work well for guitarists who are capo'ed.

[9lbShellhamer]

I see value if the chords were added.

I constantly reference a google drive doc I've created with about twenty songs i'm working on memorizing. I also reference another google drive doc frequently that contains about a hundred jam session favorites to learn or remember chords...

(then I work through the song by ear after glancing...by ear, blah blah blah...)

[bluegrassguru]

Chords are definitely important. Most everyone I've shown this to ask about that as one of their first questions. I think it makes sense and wouldn't really be that hard to provide. If I can get past the copyright licensing stuff, I'll definitely look into it. Fair enough?

[dwc]

Chords are definitely important. Most everyone I've shown this to ask about that as one of their first questions. I think it makes sense and wouldn't really be that hard to provide. If I can get past the copyright licensing stuff, I'll definitely look into it. Fair enough?

Of course it is fair. It is your app, but if you are soliciting feedback, it does not surprise me that chords come up quickly and regularly. An app that replaces that bluegrass realbook would probably be a money maker, and I am a little surprised it doesn't already exist. But if you are licensing the lyrics, how much more would it be to license the chord progression?

Another feature that would be super useful would be if you could have the chords, and then chords as bluegrass guitarists think of them. I have a songbook with 20 or so bluegrass tunes that come up every jam. I have two versions; one version has the chords as they sound (for fiddle player, bassists, mandolinists etc), the other version has the chords as bluegrass guitarists actually play them. So for any song in A, I have two versions of the same song, one where then I-IV-V is A-D-E and the other that says "Capo 2, G-C-D." An app that could display both versions would be incredibly useful in a jam situation.

[bluegrassguru]

As far as I know, there would be zero licensing/royalty fee with chords, so that's good. Licensing in this app is all about lyrics. Providing chords with transposing/etc. is a relatively simple technical solution. I know more and more people have smart phones and devices and I'd love to have this be the go-to app for referencing bluegrass songs (and eventually other genres).

I used the app just last night for a jam to take a quick peek at my favorite songs and try to figure out what to play. It also helped when someone requested to play a song we weren't very familiar with the lyrics. I'm really hoping to figure out a good solution to get the app out to everyone, so while I try solving the licensing, it's great to hear your feedback. I really appreciate it!

[BradKlein]

I think that people here at the Cafe would be interested to hear what you learn about licensing your use of lyrics. It's a funny thing, the value of lyrics fell to almost nothing for artists as sheet music sales faded away - and now it turns out to be a $$ machine for massive web sites who want to deliver advertising, music sales, and ring tones. But are the copyright holders now making substantial dollars from the online market. Who knows?

[bluegrassguru]

From what I've learned, if you show copyrighted lyrics, even if you are showing them "for educational purposes," you must have permission from the copyright holder. This usually means a music publishing company, not the songwriter directly. In order for an app like Bluegrass Guru to distribute or show a song's complete lyrics, it needs permission for every single song. Obviously this can quickly snowball to a pretty big logistical problem because there are so many different music publishers.

There are a few companies out there that provide services that consolidate all of the licensing work with multiple publishers. You can sign up for these services and then automatically have access to loads of different song lyrics legally. You report the views for each song and are then required to pay the royalties. The company then passes the royalty payments on to all the correct publishers. The big problem with these services is that they require high startup and annual fees just to participate.

Services like this work really well when you have hundreds of thousands of people using your app (think Pandora, Spotify, large lyric sites, etc.). In the case of Bluegrass Guru (highly specialized for bluegrass music) the total market is significantly reduced.

I'm still trying to explore the options to make this app a reality. Perhaps one of the larger music publishing companies would be interested in partnering? Maybe a new service will come out that doesn't require such high annual premiums to participate in their consolidated royalty & licensing payments? Suggestions welcome.