Training on a long scale neck

[SincereCorgi]

I play a lot of tenor guitar in a swing trio, but I can't play leads as fluently or fast as on a mandolin. I think because my hand has to physically slide more to play scales and can't use positions the same way, consequently I end up using a certain stock of melodic shapes that happen to lay well under the hand on a tenor guitar.

What do other people use? Something like cello fingering? Tenor banjoists sure seem to get around fast, but I've never seen a video of a really fast and fluid tenor guitarist.

One thing I got out of a Radim Zenkl workshop was that he practices on a longer scale as a sort of strength training, the idea being that if you can get something pretty good on an octave mandolin it's a cinch when you go back to mandolin. Has anybody tried this with tenor guitar?

[djweiss]

I play tenor in a honky-tonk/swing group. I end up playing most of the melody lines higher up the neck where the scale length is shorter. That's why I always look for tenors with lots of exposed frets before the neck meets the body.

[fox]

This guy is quite dexterous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwoNzrplXM

[Beanzy]

I'd say definitely use cello fingering for anything OM scale and up and like with a cello shift posittions a lot.
Move around continuously between positions like we do on the cello, don't wait until you have to shift, shift because you can and notes can stack up neater if you try them out of basic positions. I'll shift before I stretch if at all possible.
While you'r at it make use of the third finger to support the 4th by fretting behind it if the music allows, you get a more sure tone, less buzzing and it's easier to launch off if the 4th is not at maximum stretch already.
After all you've paid for the whole fingerboard; things are closer and faster further up the neck and it looks way more advanced to the audience, even if you're just making life easier on yourself.

[SincereCorgi]

While you'r at it make use of the third finger to support the 4th by setting behind it if the music allows, you get a more sure tone, less buzzing and it's easier to launch off if the 4th is not at maximum stretch already.

That sounds very interesting, I'll have to start trying to practice that. Is using the third finger like that standard in cello technique? Is there a particular cello book I could work through maybe?

Fox: that Neil dude is indeed a good player, especially the right hand, but he's not doing any fast scalar leads, he's playing out of two positions and doing a lot of drones and hammer-ons and stuff. I end up doing that sort of stuff already.

[zoukboy]

One technique that I use with students is to capo up high enough until the stretches seem manageable. Practice until it becomes familiar, and then set the capo one fret lower and repeat. Keep doing this until you can play open and manage the stretches.

[Charles E.]

Single string leads can be challenging but chord -melody is worth exploring. This fellow does a nice job......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5hsOQTUMcw

[Eddie Sheehy]

I had a Plectrum Banjo- 27" scale - that I tuned GDAE to improve my stretches and speed... Seemed to work, definitely made playing a 19-fret Tenor Banjo feel easier...

[Beanzy]

That sounds very interesting, I'll have to start trying to practice that. Is using the third finger like that standard in cello technique? Is there a particular cello book I could work through maybe?

I'd be tempted to say Penelope Lynux book "Cello Ideas". But apart from when just starting out and just getting familiar with where the notes are and how to navigate, cello tutors can be really heavily focussed on those bowed /fretless instrument techniques that you end up with good but meagre pickings for the left hand. Lots of bowing/pizzicato techniques, vibrato exercises and use of harmonics to locate yourself for things like thumb position all seem like wasted space when you want to get plucking.

One useful way to get right across the fretboard is to play scales and tunes all along one string.
Deciding where to extend and when to shift will be exactly the kind of thing you need to get on top of things.
Added to that take each scale you've just done then begin it with the first finger on the 2nd note and work it all out again from there and so on through. I find it helps to sing the 'missing' notes or better still come into them from the string below.

In terms of common extensions I use 1,x2, quite a lot as it keeps the spacing between 2&3 as a reference and I can still x4 if needed.

I'd recommend the chord melody system too, but steady and slow is the approach there as I found it pretty daunting to get my head and hands around the concept to the point where it began to click. That does demand real stretches of the kind that can intimidate at first. Honestly when starting out and I saw form I7 (1434) and III7 (3143) I thought MelBay were taking the mick. It's managable but still one I need to limber up first to get fluid.
Assuming you're in CGDA (quicker & cleaner fretting on those thinner strings is a big advantage) then Mel Bay's "Tenor Banjo Melody Chord System" is great. But it's not a quick book, one for the long-haul.

[Dolamon]

I firmly agree with Eoin on the Chord Melody System from Mel Bay. It is slow to get the flow of the ideas under your fingers and then to move them to different keys. One addition to this more or less comprehensive introduction comes from the amazing interview with John Lawlor which (I think) was a Fretboard Journal 50 minute piece now posted on You Tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5vTIxaWxjE (He starts to explain this after about 8 minutes.)

John mentions here that after he learned some of the basic chords ... he started to explore what changing one note would do to the sound. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it doesn't. But he got the sound under his fingers and started to push the ideas together - a lot of wood shedding, and a lot of years but it is worth the effort. It takes a lot of time but personally, I think it's an interesting journey.