Some cool old Gibson magazine advertisements

[hank]

Goggling Eileen Sedgwick her signature and photo holding the F4 would have been around the the time of her silent movie "The Diamond Queen". I wonder if any of the Gibson mandolin orchestras, quartets, etc. were employed by Universal Film Manufacturing Co. for the accompanying music of those silent movies?

[pfox14]

Can anyone post the "Circular" mentioned in the ad?

Here's what I think is the "circular" they mention in the F-5 ad, called "The Strads of the Mandolin Family". I believe that this pre-dates Gibson's Catalog N, which was the first full-line catalog to have the F-5. Both date to 1923.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Here's a picture of the Pitcairn "Allegro Mandolin Sextet". (Pitcairn is 15 miles east of Pittsburg, which still hosts the largest US mandolin orchestra. Front row - Alec J. Stright, Flora K. Lichtenfels, Adolph B. Fox.
Back row - Charles M. Dunford, Percy V. Lichtenfels, Director (see post above), Paul A. Wible and Edward P. Green.
According to my source http://pitcairn-historical.webs.com/...toid=101512421, the pic shows the group "at the time of the first overseas radio broadcast, which they played over Radio Station KDKA on April 17th, 1923".

Seems like a good quality mandolin outfit. Does any of the experts have a clue as to which instruments (ser. #) we are seeing? The date "April 17th, 1923" seems a bit early for K5 mandocellos and L5 guitars, no?

[hank]

Probably too early for most players and groups but these players are in Gibsons advertisements and doing historically significant radio broadcast.

[pfox14]

Looks like 2 L-5s, 2 F-5s and an F-4. I would date the photo to 1924 or after although they could have been using some of the earliest Master Model instruments ever made.

[Timbofood]

Look again, 1 L-5, 1 K-5 I think.
I think you are right about date, more likely '24.

[Capt. E]

Looks like 2 L-5s, 2 F-5s and an F-4. I would date the photo to 1924 or after although they could have been using some of the earliest Master Model instruments ever made.

There are 6 instruments: Perhaps an H-5 on the back row left? and yes, one L-5 and one K-5 on front row.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

What I see are three F5s, one H4, one L5 and one K5. All three mandos on the left have long necks and the typical F5 pick guard. You might wanna check the link for better resolution. Also, the K5's tuners and tail piece are evident. The picture could well be later than 1923. (It's not from Gibson advertising BTW; sorry about any confusion.) Percy V. Lichtenfels in the Gibson circular (post #27) inspired me to inquire about the particular instruments.

[Hudmister]

Thanks Henry Eagle eye.

[Bob Bass]

Hi Henry Eagle-

Thanks for the model identifications! Even at the current resolution, it is possible to discern the truss rod covers on all but the H4.

Although the date of April 17, 1923 seems unlikely, there is a picture from another thread which Joe Spann was able to date as having been taken at the Whitehouse on April 22, 1923, which includes 2 F5s, a Mandobass, a K5 Mandocello, and Lloyd Loar holding his Mando/Viola 70321. Goaty76 had found the picture at the Pickers Supply site homepage. Until Joe positively identified the event and the date, there was speculation that it might have been 1924 instead of 1923. The F5 held by the lady on the left looks larger than the 2nd one- larger enough to have been an H5?

That said, it looks like it would be a lot harder to verify a 1923 date for the Pitcairn picture, since it is placed in a non-musical historical site, possibly by someone unaware of the critical known dates in the history of the production of the specific instrument models in the picture.

Sorry I am not able to show the picture from the "Loar's Mando/Viola 70321" thread- I'm too computer-klutzy to get it placed here.

Bob





[danb]

Can anyone post the "Circular" mentioned in the ad?

Perhaps this one. The original is a "holy grail" for paperwork collectors. Very rare & pricey when they come up on ebay

[goaty76]

Sorry I am not able to show the picture from the "Loar's Mando/Viola 70321" thread- I'm too computer-klutzy to get it placed here.

Bob





Here's a link to the thread where that pic was discussed http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...upply+facebook

The pic and discussion of it starts on page 4. Here's another look at it too.


Phil

[pfox14]

I wonder if that's the Fischer Shipp Concert Company or some variation on the original line up.

[Scott Tichenor]

University of Iowa Digital Library has housed copies of Fisher Shipp Concert Company publicity materials with Lloyd in tow for years. A truly amazing resource.

http://digital.lib.uiowa.edu/cdm/sea...nd/cosuppress/

[chuck3]

Here's a link to the thread where that pic was discussed http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...upply+facebook

The pic and discussion of it starts on page 4. Here's another look at it too.


Phil

what do you call that big bass-type instrument and what is that going diagonally across it? A bow?

[Timbofood]

Mando-Bass not a bow but the diagonal thing is an arm rest of some sort. Do a search on mando bass and you will find all sorts of "interesting" factoids!

[chuck3]

Thanks. I did that, and can say, as someone who also plays upright bass, that the mando-bass seems like a pretty bad idea for an instrument. No great shock that it basically doesn't exist anymore. Seems like the mando orchestras of the early 1900's just wanted another mando family instrument just for the sake of it, even if it didn't work very well!

[Verne Andru]

Thanks. I did that, and can say, as someone who also plays upright bass, that the mando-bass seems like a pretty bad idea for an instrument. No great shock that it basically doesn't exist anymore. Seems like the mando orchestras of the early 1900's just wanted another mando family instrument just for the sake of it, even if it didn't work very well!

The mentality persists to this day. I played with a local mandolin society for a while that insisted all instruments be acoustic, even the bass. That pretty much leaves a big stand-up as the only option if you want bass heard over everything else as I've yet to find an acoustic bass worth using in a professional setting.

[Timbofood]

Not particularly good ideas can become some pretty amazing collectibles years down the road, think about the Edsel! As for "acoustic only" yeah, some of the music cops can be pretty inflexible. That seems to just be the way it goes.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Well, here it is folks. THE first ever ad for the F-5 from the March, 1923 issue of "The Cadenza"!! The only 2-page full color ad that Gibson ever put in any issue. The coupon included in the ad allowed you to try an F-5 for 10 days, before buying it. Pretty good deal.

I have an original of that framed and matted in my music room. I even copied the coupon and sent it in to Charlie D requesting a mandolin to try out

[Darryl Wolfe]

Perhaps this one. The original is a "holy grail" for paperwork collectors. Very rare & pricey when they come up on ebay

Rare and pricey? Yes. I believe I paid about $375 on Ebay 12-15 years ago..bidding against like 40 bidders (or bids)

[sunburst]

I even copied the coupon and sent it in to Charlie D requesting a mandolin to try out

How'd that work out?

[Darryl Wolfe]

How'd that work out?

All I got was a good laugh

[pfox14]

I didn't see any expiration date on that coupon. They should have sent you an F-5. There's no ethics in business anymore.