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Thread: chord forms to focus on?

  1. #1
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    Default chord forms to focus on?

    I am noticing, as a relative beginner, that I am fairly slow at learning new chord forms. That is, to a point that I can make an acceptably quick change with acceptable tone.

    I have the cafe' mug, with different chord shapes on it, and also a book of chords (amazon.com). There are so many, that I just don't really know where to start.

    The reason for asking this question is really two part...
    1) I'd like to know which 3 and 4 finger forms are going to help me most, as a beginner, to get playing with others relatively quickly.
    2) To know which forms, since I'm a relatively slow learner at this, I should really start working on now, as they are somewhat more difficult but will also be most useful later as I progress.


    The few that I know are (movable I know):
    7523 & 523x
    2245 & 2235
    2233 & 2244 (both really easy, and I LOVE the jazzy sound of both)
    3113

    My thinking is that after going thru my regular practice routine, and I am surfing the net/watching the boob tube, I can start forming some muscle memory with these shapes, rather than just working scales, as I typically do now.

  2. #2

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    I recommend learning your 12 basic inversions (3 maj, 3 min, 4 7th, I dim, I aug), from which you can alter any to form the extensions, work out harmonized scales, etc.

  3. #3

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    One thing I noticed is that three-note voicings of seventh chords are just four-note voicings with a note left out (Duh!). So even though I prefer to use three-note voicings, I learned the four-note voicings first, because each one gave me two three note voicings.

    I don't claim to be normal, so I don't know if this would be an efficient path for everyone. Usually I like to work from easy to hard, but starting with the harder, four-note chords made sense to me in this case.

    Mike Marshall and Pete Martin each have books that focus on chords. Mike's is theory and exercise based, while Pete's is tune based. I think they compliment each other. Mike starts with three-note voicings. Pete starts with four-note voicings. Pete also addresses which voicings are characteristic of which eras. You can download Pete's stuff for free, and then send him a check if you decide to work with it.

    There is also a great, free resource here: http://www.calgaryuke.com/ukerichard...nstruments.pdf

    If you want to play jazz, learn maj, min, dim and aug triads in all inversions, and M7, m7, 7, dim7, half dim7, aug7 in all inversions. Getting this group to be second nature is your first goal.
    Last edited by JonZ; Aug-30-2014 at 1:39pm.
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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    I recommend learning your 12 basic inversions (3 maj, 3 min, 4 7th, I dim, I aug), from which you can alter any to form the extensions, work out harmonized scales, etc.
    Where do I find these 12 inversions? The chord book I have mentions inversions, with a brief explanation of what they are, but doesn't really mention the "12 basic" ones.

  5. #5

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeymanjohn View Post
    Where do I find these 12 inversions? The chord book I have mentions inversions, with a brief explanation of what they are, but doesn't really mention the "12 basic" ones.
    There are only four inversions. You can put the 1, 3, 5 or 7 on the lowest string. From there you can order the other scale degrees however you want, but there are only a few ways that are mandolin friendly. The link I gave you above will give you a mental roadmap for building any chord.

    If you like jazz, the cheapest thing would be to download the free PDF from Calgary Uke. That will give you a chord building overview. Then start working with Pete's book. That will give you context. If it is something you decide to work through, send him a check.
    Last edited by JonZ; Aug-30-2014 at 2:04pm.
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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    The answer of what chord forms to learn to 'get playing with others quickly' has a lot to do with style. Bluegrass is pretty straightforward- you learn your big chop chord and then how to move it around, then a couple basic minor shapes. That will get you through %90 of bluegrass beginner sessions.

    For jazz it's more complicated, and I would suggest going through the Mike Marshall chord DVD. As with jazz guitar, three-note chords are popular because they leave a lot of space in the texture and they simplify voice-leading. It's also easy to add extensions to them. Having said that, you will never have all the options of a jazz guitarist. Learn maybe a dozen '20s/'30s standards and you will start to intuit the typical ways that shapes resolve into each other. Once you have than in your fingers, you're a long ways along. It takes a while to figure out what you can leave out.

  7. #7

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    That's true. If you don't like jazz, there isn't a lot of reason to put in the time to learn a bunch of extended chords. Some folks have built thriving careers on the so-called chop chord.
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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    As far as style, although knowing little enough about either mandolin or music to be capable of playing any style really, I would probably lean to playing more 70's/80's popular type music. Bob Segar, Boston (if that's even possible with a mandolin), early RUSH, Little Feat, Simon & Garfunkel, Journey, etc.... As far as playing Jazz, I would say tunes like Al Stewart's "Year of the Cat", or about anything of Steely Dan's "Aja" would be appealing to play, but I imagine I'm many, many years away from the skill required for that stuff.

    I also really like how I hear mandolin used in a lot of todays country music. Even if it's not the focus or "star', the ornamentation and character it adds is quite appealing.

    I doubt I'll ever play on stage, even at church. I'm more of the roadie, setting up the sound system, lights, and dimmers, and running such behind the scenes. The only person I've played with so far, at my house, plays James Taylor, John Denver, and Gospel.

    I'm not really "in to" bluegrass, however as a starting mandolinist, that seems to be where most instructors lean, understandably.

    Anyway, I was hoping some might steer me in the right direction, as far as the most useful, or in demand, chord shapes, but I can see where it is probably to my benefit to sit down with my books and a pencil and figure out which ones contain which notes, what inversion they are, and just choose a few of each to work on. It's just quite a bit more left-brained and analytical than I expected to experience with an artistic endeavor....

  9. #9

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeymanjohn View Post
    Where do I find these 12 inversions? The chord book I have mentions inversions, with a brief explanation of what they are, but doesn't really mention the "12 basic" ones.
    Sorry, I meant 12 basic chord forms. Don't know where the most convenient place to find them--my technical material is all tenor banjo...if you're unable to locate it in mandolin material, search Buddy Wachter

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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    If you work through the Frank Geiger book listed by JohnZ it will cover all the chords you need for most folk/rock/pop stuff and you'll be able to decide how to make them in the way they sound best to you, without having to learn loads of shapes. It was a great resource for really getting them under my belt. Now all I ever do is choose the root note then make the chord on the fly, no more being stuck with only the patterns I've learned. Obviously I've got my basic shapes I use for 'standard' but those are just from habit and repetition.

    Another really useful mandolin-specific chord and scale resource when I was getting to grips with it was Bradley Laird's "Mandolin Masterclass" It just cuts to the chase and doesn't over complicate things. That really got me the simple Major & Minor chords in my head early on as well as clarifying the fretboard by use of patterns.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  11. #11

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    You're going to make a lot of work for yourself if you follow those chord books (or even the mug) too extensively. And there are many, many chords out there. I can't tell you how many there are, because it is either an exorbitantly large amount, or possibly infinite. Nevertheless, I could play every single one of them if you started naming them off to me. We worry about them as they come; there are principles that govern the building and use of chords and chord voicings. If you learn those principles, no chord will ever stump you, and you will be able to use chords with creative freedom. You can get on that path if you do the free lessons on this website: http://www.musictheory.net/lessons

    I also suggest that you learn to read the staff. Music becomes much less obtuse when you can read staff notation. If you can get comfy with ABC notation, I suggest you do so.

    http://abcnotation.com/
    http://www.mandolintab.net/

    On to actual chords, you only need to worry about three chord "shapes" on the mandolin for most music out there. You need a major triad shape, a minor triad shape, and a dominant seventh chord shape.

    Here is a C major triad (or, simply, "C"):

    Code:
    E-
    A-7
    D-5
    G-5
    From the lowest sounding pitch, those notes are C G E. C is the root of the chord (the letter name of the chord), G is the fifth of the chord, and E is the third of the chord.

    Here is a C minor triad (or, simply, "Cm"):

    Code:
    E-
    A-6
    D-5
    G-5
    From the lowest sounding pitch, those notes are C G E♭. Very similar to the last chord, no? The only difference is that compared to the major triad, the third of the chord is "flattened," meaning that its pitch is reduced by one semitone. For us mandolinists, each fret corresponds to a semitone, so to lower something by a semitone, one simply goes back one fret.

    Here is a C dominant seventh chord (or, simply, C7):

    Code:
    E-
    A-7
    D-8
    G-5
    From the lowest sounding pitch, those notes are C B♭ E. It looks a lot like the major triad shape, except we are moving the note in the middle up. C is the root of the chord, B♭ is the seventh of the chord, and E is the third of the chord. You could have a fifth in this chord, which would be G, but I am omitting it here so that you only have to deal with three notes in each chord. It is a common practice to omit the fifth, by the way.

    The next step is to learn the notes on your G string and D string. The reason is that you can transpose these shapes and easily be able to play any tune that has major and minor triads, as well as the dominant seventh chord. If you saw "D" on a chord chart, this would be what you would play:

    Code:
    E-
    A-9
    D-7
    G-7
    Do you see? It's the exact same thing as the "C" shape, but moved up two frets. The lowest note of that chord, the root, is D. You could also play it this way:

    Code:
    E-
    A-2
    D-0
    G-0
    Same exact thing. We've moved it up to the D string now. It's the same shape, though. We can keep going like this. Here is E:

    Code:
    E-4
    A-2
    D-2
    G-
    And Em:

    Code:
    E-3
    A-2
    D-2
    G-

    Three movable shapes. You can play most of the mandolin's repertoire like this, until you understand harmony a little more extensively.

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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    I would love to learn to read staff. I just seem a bit "overloaded". Just trying to keep count w/ the 1&2&3&4 in time w/ a metronome is a challenge at times. I'm usually ok, untill I get to the second a or b part, and my eyes jump back up to the top or middle of the page, and I loose the count. Even if I stay in time playing the rhythm, I still loose the count. Adding more to think about, on top of up or down strokes, thinking about chord progression count, and not getting frustrated with myself for flubbed chords, while playing seems counterintuitive, but I know in the long run it's not. Short term though,..... ughh. I'm certain all this sounds simple and second nature to most of you seasoned players. To me though, admittedly a slow learner, but eager, it's currently a struggle.

    Thanks for the chord/s. I actually studied alot of the major chord forms, and have added a couple to my practice. I can see where the flabby part of the "flat" of my pinky, is going to need to get calloused up some, in order to be proficient with the 1344(major) and 1244(minor) form. Pretty much a four finger version of the chord shapes you mentioned, if I am seeing the relationship right. It's just moved closer to the e course and "wrapping back up around the g course. Maybe not, ah,...dyslexia....

    The 1341 form, doesn't seem to difficult, as far as getting my fingers to make the actual shape, but doing it cleanly, without the fingers buzzing or deadening adjacent strings is going to take some practice.

    These are the ones I decided to focus on adding in right now. I sure hope they are ones that will be handy, and not rarely used. I'll start playing around with the three finger shapes you mentioned, and hopefully the relationship will start to gel a bit more clearly.

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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    Here is a handy 3 note major chord video lesson from Don Julin. It's just a start you'll want others mentioned above as well. His book is a useful reference imo.

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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    Page 41 through 45 of the jazzCittern's Field Guide to ModeExploration pdf has a "Building Cittern Chords" chapter. That chapter (here's the link) shows how to build all inversions of a chord shape yourself. The fact is, you can find 4 inversions of ANY 4-note chord shape in 4 easy steps, like so:

    Take the first string fret and add 2 to it. Play the third string on that fret.
    Take the second string fret and add 2 to it. Play the fourth string on that fret.
    Take the third string fret and add 5 to it. Play the second string on that fret.
    Take the fourth string fret and add 3 to it. Play the first string on that fret.

    That gets you the next inversion. Try it!

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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    Look up the 4 part lessons posted here by Zak Borden. For me, his explanations made a ton of sense, and got me thinking about three note chords. I also found this online, and it has a ton of three note chords, and how to "conjugate" them, as the PDF explains. I hope it helps.
    http://jazzmando.com/tips/archives/p...ote-Chords.pdf

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    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    If you're a real beginner, you might find this chart useful. I use it for my beginner students to teach the most basic chord forms.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Survival Chords All 10-10-12.pdf  
    Phil Vinyard
    Gibson Jam Master F Standard #12 May 13, 2009
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  20. #17

    Default Re: chord forms to focus on?

    I use 3 note chords almost exclusively based around 3 moveable shapes which can be altered/extended. This book here lays it all out and it's in my top 5 of essential mandolin books. http://ottawafolklore.myshopify.com/...lin-chordology

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