Strings keep breaking at bridge

[disposition]

Hey folks hoping you guys can give me some advice on a problem I'm having. I have been breaking strings on my mandolin lately like none other. It has gotten to the point that I'm never confident I can make it through a gig. The thing is the strings keep breaking at the bridge and appear to be worn to the point that the metal coating breaking but part of the string is still intact. I've tried rubbing graphite on the bridge (this worked for a telecaster I have where the saddles broke strings) but it did not solve the problem. A fiddle player I know recommended lowering the bridge saying it might be set too high causing too much tension? Has anyone experienced this problem before or have any ideas?

Many thanks.

[allenhopkins]

There are two obvious possibilities. [1] the slots in the bridge saddle are so tight that they're "grabbing" the strings as you tighten them by tuning, and not letting the string tension equalize on both sides of the bridge, so that the strings break. This is what the graphite lubrication you tried would "cure," but it's also the less likely. More likely on your Tele with its grooved metal saddles, which is probably why it worked for you.

[2] The bridge saddle is incorrectly shaped, with a sharp peak that cuts into the strings as they vibrate while playing, and eventually "saws" through the string windings. From your post I gather it's the wound strings that are breaking? The rougher surface of wound strings provides more friction with the bridge than the smoother unwound strings, so even though the wound strings are thicker/"stronger," the actual winding wires are thinner, and once you "saw" through the winding the string core won't hold.

I'd take the mando to a luthier and see if the bridge saddle might be reshaped to get rid of the point that's cutting your strings. Or the saddle could be replaced. Don't think that lowering the saddle would make a lot of difference (I may be wrong here); you have to put the same amount of tension on a string of a certain length and diameter, to reach the same pitch, so the only advantage (if it is one) is that a lower bridge very slightly reduces string length.

Another variable is, of course, your picking technique; if you're sorta "heavy-handed" there's more force applied to the strings. You say you're playing gigs; can you jack up whatever system you're using to amplify your instrument, and play with a lighter touch? Might make a difference.

In any case, I'd get that bridge saddle professionally evaluated.

[disposition]

Thanks for the reply allenhopkins I really appreciate it.

I'm thinking the most likely scenario is the second one you listed. But there is sorta a catch I suppose. I recently bought a fishman pickup which as I'm sure you know comes with its own bridge. But I did have the same problem with both bridges. However I did by the mandolin and pickup from the same shop and it was set up by the same individual. He even made the grooves in the bridge.

I have definitely considered me possibly being to heavy handed but I was playing the other day and lost a string in the same fashion and I know for a fact this one was not due to me pounding away at the instrument haha. Also, I don't know if this has any bearing but I had my last set of strings on for a week and once one of the strings broke (the A in this case) I ended up losing the other A and shortly there after both D's. I rarely have any problems with the G or E.

[Markus]

I would talk to the setup guy and have him look at it to make sure the slots are good. If you are polite and work with his schedule I bet he would be happy to.

Do you use the same strings as your repair shop? Slightly thicker strings than the slots he cut could be part of the problem.

I haven't broken a string while playing for years and I have a heavy right hand that really whoops the strings at times ... Something is odd that this happens to you and as a performer it should not be something you see regularly.

[mandroid]

I have a number of months before my .010" high E string breaks
at the bridge of aluminum on my '22A.

it's just metal fatigue at work then, As I Attribute it.. normal .

[disposition]

I think I might go talk to him again. He's a nice guy and who is always willing to help, I'm just uncertain since he is the one has been setting it up the entire time. But I honestly don't know if it's me or the setup at this point...I just can't imagine I'm THAT heavy handed.

I have been using D'addario J74's this entire time, next time I buy strings (which will most likely be sooner than I like) I'll pick it out a lighter set and see if that helps. But man do I like those J74's haha

[darrylicshon]

I would think it is the bridge , hate to say this but if the same person setup both you might want to take it to someone else , i never brake a string no matter how hard i play on any the mandolin or guitar or violin , good luck

[rockies]

I'm going to ask a strange question, Are you using a really light flexible pick ? When I ran my repair business I used to see this problem once in a while. Once where all the strings were breaking (sometimes an E or an A or a D) for a customer, I eventually ruled out saddle and bridge problems. I had her play for me and observed she was playing quite hard with a very flexible pick. The pick would bend as she picked the strings and her thumb was actually pulling the string as she tried to get the volume she wanted. I talked her into going to a heavy pick and relearning her technique. She did and after a few weeks she came back and said she was no longer breaking strings and was also ecstatic about the improvement in her mandolins tone. You just never know, just an opinion.
Dave

[journeybear]

... the strings keep breaking at the bridge and appear to be worn to the point that the metal coating breaking but part of the string is still intact.

Could you please rephrase this bit? I don't know what you mean. Thanks.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Do you have a glass bridge...

[allenhopkins]

Do you have a glass bridge...

Or to state it in other terms, is he playing a waldzither? I'd say the chances of that are fairly slim…


Could ask the OP, though, what type of mandolin he's (assume it's a "he") playing, and what type of strings he's using…?

[Bertram Henze]

I have been using D'addario J74's this entire time, next time I buy strings (which will most likely be sooner than I like) I'll pick it out a lighter set and see if that helps. But man do I like those J74's haha

Though it sounds counter-intuitive, a lighter set may make it worse. Whenever I break strings at the bridge, it is those with the least tension; that is connected to how much the strings really move around the saddle slots: the higher the gauge, the higher the tension, the less motion from picking (especially important for heavy-handed playing). Higher tension allows for lower action, i.e. also less motion from fretting.
Another thing: if you're also an electric guitar player you might be used to do string bending and other brutal manipulation - mandolins are not really cut out for that.

[bart mcneil]

It almost has to be a bridge problem as I have broken lots of strings through mishandling and lack of knowledge on proper stringing but never broke one at the bridge as I recall. Usually they broke near the tuning peg and rarely near the tailpiece.

You also don't mention which strings are prone to break. Normally the E string is most likely to break. Sometimes the A, and very seldom the G or D.

If you tune it properly the tension is seldom the cause of the problem. Read frets.com on stringing and tuning your instrument. There is a lot of great information there. Lowering the bridge will likely have little or no effect on string breakage.

[Steve Zawacki]

This may seem far-fetched, but I'd have the bridge checked for: 1) slot sizes (as earlier mentioned); and 2) interior angle of the slots.

The OP said "strings" plural were breaking, but did not indicate if it was random across all slots or a particular pair or two all the time. If it is with particular strings, the slot size issue would be my first check.

If the problem is random, perhaps the slots are not flat and edge-rounded. If the slot is angled across the bottom so that the strings rest on a sharp point, that contact point would act like a blade edge on the tensioned strings. The other thing may be that the slots were cut with a triangular (rather than round) file in a straight-down manner, and that would result in a pinch on the tensioned strings where they make contact with the bridge.

There is always the possibility that it's both problems. Either way, an examination of the slots and some gentle round-file work may solve the problem(s).

[twilson]

With the string changing and tuning sometimes the bridge can creep towards the nut. In other words, the bridge is no longer perpendicular to the top. This would mean strings are contacting the bridge at the back edge of the slots.

Hope this helps.

Tim Wilson

[sunburst]

I think I've read the whole thread and nobody has asked how long the strings last. If I missed it, apologies, but...
How long do your strings last? Is it possible that you are playing them too long and they are breaking from "old age"?
I suspect a heavy hand, if not old strings. Wooden bridges (ebony, usually) seldom break strings because of bad slots. The steel strings impress their own shape into the wood, the strings do not slide back and forth in the bridge slots when they are played or tuned, and any sharp edge in a wooden bridge slot is quickly mashed down to a round, smooth slot by the steel string. Almost no matter what the bridge slots start out to be, the strings mold them to their own profile so once again, bridge slots are seldom the cause of broken strings.

[re simmers]

I had the same issue with breaking strings at the bridge. I had taken my mandolin to a luthier for a year, and I went to J75's and was still breaking strings. Then I took a lesson from Herschel Sizemore. I did not say anything to him about breaking strings prior to the lesson. I was there to learn some hot licks. He watched me play, and asked if I break any strings at the bridge. He said the way I was holding the pick/the way I struck the strings looked like I would. I changed the position of my right hand so that the pick is hitting the strings flat, not at an angle. I have not broken one since.

Bob

[mandobassman]

I had the same issue with breaking strings at the bridge. I had taken my mandolin to a luthier for a year, and I went to J75's and was still breaking strings. Then I took a lesson from Herschel Sizemore. I did not say anything to him about breaking strings prior to the lesson. I was there to learn some hot licks. He watched me play, and asked if I break any strings at the bridge. He said the way I was holding the pick/the way I struck the strings looked like I would. I changed the position of my right hand so that the pick is hitting the strings flat, not at an angle. I have not broken one since.

Bob

I'm not sure if this advice would solve any problems. Many, many mandolinists play with the pick at an angle to the strings, including me, and don't break strings. I can count on one hand the number of strings I have broken in nearly 40 years of playing. Lots of pro players suggest playing with the pick at an angle to the strings, including John Reischman, to get the sweetest tone from the instrument. Some players may get a good sound by playing with the pick flat to the strings, it sure works fine for Herschel, but I think the majority play at an angle. Sounds much more like a bridge problem to me.

[re simmers]

It worked for me, but I never claimed it was a solution for everyone.

When I started breaking strings....all of them, but mostly the D and A strings, I took my mandolin to Paul Beard, an excellent luthier (Beard Guitars). He refiled the slots 4 times in a year.

Maybe I didn't explain enough: my pick was at an angle, but the way I struck the strings was awkward, too. Bottom line: I am back to using J74's, and my strings need changed before I ever break any since I adjusted my picking. I still have the pick at a slight angle, but my technique has changed.

Will my advice NOT solve any problems for someone else? I have no idea.

The opener was: Has anyone experienced this problem before or have any ideas? Yes.

My point is simple: it worked for me.

Bob

[disposition]

Journeybear,

I usually break the D and A. When the D breaks its actually the bronze coating (I just J74s) that breaks leaving a small fragment intact. Hope that makes more sense. It's almost as if it was rubbing up against something the entire time causing it to wear down. Usually I'll go through a pack of strings a week, granted I do play quite a bit.

[Bertram Henze]

It's almost as if it was rubbing up against something the entire time causing it to wear down. Usually I'll go through a pack of strings a week, granted I do play quite a bit.

And the saddle is made of wood? Not flintstone or a diamond saw?

It is time to post a few pictures.