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Thread: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

  1. #26
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    I've found that one of the really good things about learning by ear,is that after listening to a tune over & over,you get the tempo in your head as well as the melody. If i learn a tune from a recording & learn it well enough to play it,every time i play it i hear the recording, melody,tempo & everything else.No need for a metronome,foot tapping or anything,
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    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    I have to hear the tune and keep it memorized in my head before I can learn to play it. I think this is the way I should learn a tune ,

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    Still Picking and Sawing Jack Roberts's Avatar
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    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    I had the same thing going on with me for years. Then I started learning tunes from really old (ca.200 years old) tune books. I cannot find recordings or other players who knew most of these tunes. So I just went slowly, playing one measure at a time.
    I have now gotten to where my sight reading is much better, and I feel more confident playing now because I've added so many obscure but interesting tunes to my playlist.
    Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
    When time is broke and no proportion kept!
    --William Shakespeare

  4. #29
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    Quote Originally Posted by icuker View Post
    Seems that if I try a new tune I have trouble learning it by reading notation or tab unless I can hear how it sounds.
    Do you have the same problem when reading English? That is, you need to hear the words as well as see them? Probably you hear them in your mind as soon as you see them written. And that is exactly how people who are fluent music readers read music (whether staff notation or tab). You see the symbols, hear the music in your head, and get your instrument to make the sounds you are hearing.

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    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    Quote Originally Posted by icuker View Post
    Seems that if I try a new tune I have trouble learning it by reading notation or tab unless I can hear how it sounds. So I am very dependent on having a CD along with the books of tunes. I think tempo and timing are somewhat the problem. I don't read rhythms very well. But any recommendations on how to over come this?

    I think this is a fairly common problem for those trying to learn notation after they have been playing the instrument for a while. Trying to read pitch and rhythm at the same time can be overwhelming at times. When one is learning a 'classical' or orchestral instrument, they usually follow an established method where pitch, rhythm and technique are introduced slowly at first (think 'Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star') so as not to overwhelm the student and then progress in complexity as the student becomes more proficient. The progression is usually so smooth and natural that you don't even realize that you can read music at first. But for a 'folk' instrument, where there are many different ways to learn to play, and we all want to play tunes not 'Twinkle, Twinkle', trying to learn a tune by reading notation 'all at once' may be too demanding.

    I think the best approach is the split up the rhythm and the pitch. When I first began learning classical guitar and had trouble with a particular exercise, my teacher would have me just tap out the rhythm until I got it down. Then I would practice playing the notes (pitch), without regard to rhythm, just fingering the right notes with the right fingers until I could do it consistently. Finally, I would put the rhythm and melody together and play it at a slow tempo gradually speeding it up. This may seem rather laborious, but it works and avoids the frustration associated with trying to do two (or three) things at the same time and succeeding at neither. Fortunately, with practice and experience, reading notation becomes almost second nature, as many rhythms become instantly recognizable. Btw, I still use this technique today on tricky passages and with my mando ( i'm still somewhat of a mando newbie).

    Like many skills, it's tough at first, but practice and perseverance pay off in the end! Just don't forget to have fun too!

  6. #31

    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    great advice all. I like the idea of splitting up the rhythm and placement in two steps.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    Do you have the same problem when reading English? That is, you need to hear the words as well as see them?
    I learn music by notation, and have done so for decades. However, I've recently been trying to learn tunes by ear, and I have come to the same conclusion that original poster did. I remember them better if I learn them by ear. I really wish it were not so, because I am very slow at picking out the melody by ear, and chords are even tougher for me (even though I understand chord theory from my guitar playing).

    The above quote I found interesting, not as much for English, but for the foreign languages I've studied. I have found that I most effectively learn a foreign language when there's a mix of ear and sight, particularly at the beginning. I've never considered what that might mean for learning a song. I suppose if you transcribe a song you've learned by ear, and then use the transcription in future practice sessions, that might constitute a mix??

    The mysteries of the human brain .... bb

  8. #33

    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    along with ombudsmans thoughts

    itslike learning a foreign language, you moust do a little every day
    it takes a bit of slow practice, daily, then you will internalize it, you can simply read it

    I think of up and down strokes -ie playing eighth notes, one AND two AND etc-ie a substitution of sorts for clapping, -the down stroke is the down beat , the up stroke the "AND" -

    I find that having a 'constant' up down stroke, and then, applying the written notes within this framework really helped me to be able to read rhythms more readily

    tomo fujitsu (Berklee) has a superb video on this for guitar

  9. #34

    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    I don't regard your problem as a deficiency. Like you I never achieved the ability to "hear" the music through notation, even though as a kid I knew I had an unusual talent for music. My approach to music is scattered and unsystematic and probably terribly inefficient but I enjoy it nevertheless and it kinda works for me. But I am by no means a professional and I might think otherwise if I had to make a living at music.

  10. #35

    Default Re: The need to hear a tune and not just read it question

    Honestly? It's practice. Reading music is a skill and the more that you do it the better you'll get at it. And truth be told, most people aren't very good at sight reading anyway and there are very few people who can pick up a piece of sheet music and play it well through the first time cold.

    What I often do is take a chunk of a song and attempt to play it straight through first to see where my rough parts are. Then I'll break it down measure by measure and phrase by phrase working on tricky parts. If it's a rhythm problem I'll often count it out before playing (like one-e-and-a two-and-a, one and two-and-a) and will play a thousand times slower than the proper tempo. Once I can get those mechanics down then I'm able to really figure out what the song is doing and make it musical.

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