Sing and play through an amplifier?

[iancohen82]

I'd like to accompany myself on mandolin and sing in the park, outdoor cafes, bars, etc. I need amplification. It was suggested I get two mikes (one for voice, one for mandolin/guitar) and go through one amplifier. Can this work? All suggestions welcome! Thanks! Ian

[Astro]

Yes. Fishman Loudbox is probably just the ticket for you.

[SincereCorgi]

For a battery-powered unit (good for parks), the Roland Street might be okay.

[Dan Krhla]

My friend plays venues large and small with a mandolin and singing through a Fender Acoustasonic Jr. That's a retired model but you can still find them used. The Fender Acoustasonic 90 is similar and it's powerful enough. If you need more juice you can mic it or there is an XLR out. If I was gigging regularly, this would be my amp of choice...

[dang]

You can get a better price on some other amplifiers, but I haven't found a better sound than the Schertler amplifiers. They have some really nice features like 48v phantom power and Hi-Z inputs. I have even used my Unico with a large diaphragm condenser to do a single mic setup for a 5 piece bluegrass band when the PA didn't work at a gig. It was a small audience so we got away with it

[Jon Hall]

Ian, Two mics will only work if the amp has two XLR out puts. The amps that I've seen only have one XLR even though they have two channels.

[iancohen82]

Ian, Two mics will only work if the amp has two XLR out puts. The amps that I've seen only have one XLR even though they have two channels.

Thanks, Jon. Do you have any other suggestions? Does this mean my mandolin needs to have a pickup?

[multidon]

I used to have an old Acoustisonic Jr. It was good but very heavy and difficult to transport. It had one XLR maximized for a mic and one 1/4 inch optimized for a piezo pickup. I used it for a standalone pa when it was just me my voice and my guitar. It worked fine but I was tired of hauling around a big bulky heavy thing. I traded it in for a Fishman Loudbox Artist. Half the weight and almost twice the Power. It sounds awesome! I note that the two channels both utilize the newer style of jacks where you can plug in either an XLT or 1/4 inch in the same socket. It seems like you can use two mikes, two instruments, or one of each. Very versatile. I don't know if the other amps in this series are like this but the Artist is. I paid around 575 or so. Now if you play in the park, will you have access to power? The Loudbox would be my choice if you can plug in, but if you need battery power your choices are limited. The busker's standby, the Crate Taxi, is no longer made.

[dang]

Ian, Two mics will only work if the amp has two XLR out puts. The amps that I've seen only have one XLR even though they have two channels.

The Schertler amps I linked to in my post above have multiple XLR inputs, but as I said the price point is high.

A low cost option with multiple XLR inputs would be something like the Kustom PA50 Personal PA System, $99, NFI. You could get an SM57, SM58 and the Kustom PA50 and still come in under $300. Cables and mic stands would be necessary also... but you will need those with any amp or PA.

[mandroid]

Its a big singer-soloist accompanying them selves on guitar sort of category ..

with in that sector There is Rolands AC 90, 60(have 1) 40 and 33 [battery powered ]

Yamaha stage pass http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global...cts/pasystems/ comes in several power levels ..

its a PA speaker but they designed them to have a mixer included in one (more channels)
the basic 150 has 2 XLR 3_ 1/4" mono/stereo channels

that will work with several mic inputs and you really can just bring one ..
so there is the simplicity + you can set it up on a mic stand,
to get it above the crowd to reach the back of the room

the way they pair them the storage space where the removable Mixer goes in one ,
for its mate you have cable storage.

[Bob Bronow]

I've had no problems with my Fishman Loudbox Mini. It's got power, sounds good and is very portable.

[darrylicshon]

My old lady has a crate acoustic ca60d it sounds good but it is not battery operated the roland cube street is and sounds ok

[mandroid]

a lot of people use a Pickup, for the 1/4" input source ..
one of my friends a flautist , uses a Dynamic Mic ala Shure's 57,
a impedance matching transformer and a Fender Guitar amp

if your mic is a Condenser type It needs power to it or a battery in it.

dynamics make their own juice . so the impedance match is just to suit the amp input needs

+ they are More spit resistant..\

I think Crate's Taxi and Limo were there battery 'busker's' amps.

[allenhopkins]

Fender Amp Can works for me (I own two); no longer produced, but you can find used ones. To use with two mics, get a couple line transformers to convert XLR cable male ends to quarter-inch, and low impedance to high. Line transformers cost about $10-15 each.

I use the Amp Can (which has a rechargeable gel battery -- make sure to get the charger as well), and two cheap mics, for most of my small-audience gigs at senior residences, etc. I have a clamp-on side-mount boom for the instrument mic, so I'm using just one mic stand.

Haven't played any of the other battery-powered amplifiers, so can't comment. Amp Can meets my needs, has for 15+ years. Sorry they quit making 'em, but they're around on the used market. And the replacement gel batteries as well; battery lasts a few years, then stops taking a charge.

[Jon Hall]

Ian: If the amp only has one XLR input, you would use it for the mic and the 1/4" input of the 2nd channel for your instrument. My mandolin has a McIntyre pickup fastened underneath the top. I run the signal through an L.R. Baggs Parametric D.I. to my Roland 40 watt acoustic amp. Most pickups that are installed in mandolins are passive (without a battery) and require a pre-amp to boost the signal.

[iancohen82]

Hey guys! Thanks for your help! I know what I need to do. Make more $!

[almeriastrings]

The Fishman SA-220 will do this easily. You can have two mic inputs, one mic + instrument (passive or active) or two instruments. There is also an extra input on the back so you can use it with a separate mixer, if required, when you need more inputs. They have excellent dispersion and fidelity. They are not the cheapest, but you get what you pay for - they sound superb and are very well built. You can do a lot with these.

They are not battery powered, however.... there are a number of battery powered units out there, but they are all something of compromise in other areas.

[Mark Seale]

I've had a great success using the Acoustic Image Corus. I run two instruments or an instrument and vocal on a regular basis. More recently, one of my bands has started using the QSC K10 powered speakers. These also have direct inputs and would work for very well in a solo act scenario.

[Ed Goist]

Ian, Two mics will only work if the amp has two XLR out puts. The amps that I've seen only have one XLR even though they have two channels.

Why is this? Can't one run a mic through the 1/4" instrument input? This seems to have worked okay with every amp I've tried it with.

[allenhopkins]

Why is this? Can't one run a mic through the 1/4" instrument input? This seems to have worked okay with every amp I've tried it with.

Works best with high-imedance mics, but you can get a line transformer (see Post#14) and connect a low-impedance mic with an XLR (3-pin) connector to the quarter-inch input. I've been doing this for decades with my Amp Cans, which only have quarter-inch inputs.

"Mic" and "Inst" inputs may well have different sensitivities, since instrument pickups produce stronger signals (rule of thumb, YMMV). But with a line transformer you'll have ample signal level.

[lflngpicker]

I have a Fishman Loudbox mini and it is a great little PA system for a solo act. I have performed for crowds of 75 -100 in fairly large multipurpose rooms and it is both high fidelity and has plenty of volume. You can use use two mics or a direct instrument input and an XLR for mic. There are adapters to use with the second input that is an RCA 1/4 plug input. Shure SM58 for vocals and SM57 for instrument are basic, industry standard mics. I also plug a Taylor guitar directly in and use a mic with that set up.

[Ed Goist]

I have a Fishman Loudbox mini and it is a great little PA system for a solo act. I have performed for crowds of 75 -100 in fairly large multipurpose rooms and it is both high fidelity and has plenty of volume. You can use use two mics or a direct instrument input and an XLR for mic. There are adapters to use with the second input that is an RCA 1/4 plug input. Shure SM58 for vocals and SM57 for instrument are basic, industry standard mics. I also plug a Taylor guitar directly in and use a mic with that set up.

This looks to be about the best sound system solution under $500 for a solo acoustic act.

I'm about to venture into the solo singer/songwriter realm as well, and I'll eventually need my own system. I'll be using both acoustic & acoustic/electric instruments, so I'll need something I can plug two mics into, or a mic plus an a/e (pre-amped) instrument into. Reasonable portability is also important. Venues will be relatively small, and even if I get the courage to play larger places I'll only do so if they have house sound, so I'll be able to mic whatever system I get.

Is the Fishman Loudbox Mini THE choice, or are there other options I should be considering? (Since the street on the Fishman is $330, let's say that's the target budget.)

[almeriastrings]

From what I've seen, certainly the Fishman's (all models) are very nice sounding, well made acoustic amplifiers. Never heard a bad one and they are pretty versatile. If you get them off the floor, on a chair or stand, you can be heard very well even in quite crowded rooms. There are quite a lot of good acoustic amplifiers these days, compared to yesteryear... the Scherler's are indeed excellent, but there are two issues to consider. The Schertler's are pretty pricey. They are designed in Switzerland (but are built in Italy, presently, I believe) - so base costs are much higher than say, something built in China (as so much is these days). Whether this translates to a physical difference in 'quality' with electronic gear is debatable. While cheap stuff is likely to be 'cheap' across the board, with good QC and good components, place of assembly may have little or no impact, other than on price. My one 'technical' gripe with some Schertler models (JAM series) is that the "Hi-Z" input is way, way to low for use with a passive transducer at 47K. Why they did this, I have no idea. Normally, you'd expect at least 1M. That does mean, with affected models you need to use either an active transducer or run through a preamp with a more suitable input impedance. Their other models offer a higher impedance (up to 820k) - but this is still on the low side for many transducers. I suspect they are aimed squarely at users of their own transducers, where these specs will be fine. If you use a lowish output passive transducer like the McIntyre Feather, however, they are not ideal and you'd definitely need to consider a separate preamp. The Loudboxes work well, straight off, with both active and passive transducers.

The Scherler's do look drop dead gorgeous, however, and sound great provided they are a good match to the pickup system in use!

[dang]

My one 'technical' gripe with some Schertler models (JAM series) is that the "Hi-Z" input is way, way to low for use with a passive transducer at 47K. Why they did this, I have no idea. Normally, you'd expect at least 1M. That does mean, with affected models you need to use either an active transducer or run through a preamp with a more suitable input impedance. Their other models offer a higher impedance (up to 820k) - but this is still on the low side for many transducers. I suspect they are aimed squarely at users of their own transducers, where these specs will be fine. If you use a lowish output passive transducer like the McIntyre Feather, however, they are not ideal and you'd definitely need to consider a separate preamp. The Loudboxes work well, straight off, with both active and passive transducers.

I had not noticed that, had to check the manual for my Unico Classic and you are totally correct, 10 kohm in my case. I guess I always use my Schertler Pickup so it is not a huge issue for now but it does influence the flexiblilty of a very expensive piece of equipment...

The manual does say something about connecting high impedance inputs:


and I found the CA-ADRIVER-4 on the UK website, it says it requires 10v phantom power and converts impedance from high to low??? It kinda just looks like a normal cable...

[almeriastrings]

Yeah... that 'active' cable actually incorporates a tiny FET buffer preamp which offers a high impedance connection. It needs the 10v to power the internal electronics. Unfortunately, I cannot find any really detailed specs or figures for it, though one site describes it as having a 500K impedance on the input side:

http://www.djangobooks.com/Item/sche...e-driver-cable

That is still kind of low for a passive piezo transducer.

I suspect a good external preamp would be the best way to go.