Tuners

[LongBlackVeil]

Just got my golden age a style restoration tuners installed on my a jr. They were an easy drop in fit, just had to press in the bushings and screw them on.

My impression is very good, they're a maor step up from the original tuners. Of course they don't look "vintage correct" for an a jr. But they sure do function better and I'm really pleased with the way they turn. They're not hard to turn at all nor are they too smooth (which I also don't like)

I give em a thumbs up

[Astro]

Why arent they all available as locking tuners? So much easier to restring.

[mandroid]

Mil Spec is Military specification .. (your taxes pay the difference)
but in the case of Tuners . the Waverly are a precisely US machined its that precision that requires the precise installation .

locking tuner would be possible , but wouldn't look traditional ..so a hard sell
in the conservative business of traditional instrument making..

Mechanically, .. re machine the end of the capstan to use a tiny set screw
to clamp the string in the hole , if you wish .. its a DIY project ..
[dont wait for the 'you guys should', committee to approve & fund the idea]
will need the allen wrench to be on hand, thereafter to do the string change.

[renoyd]

I wanted black tuner buttons on my mandolin and figured out pretty quick there was no way to replace just the buttons, so I ordered a set of Golden Age tuners from StewMac. At least two of the tuners, once installed, were almost impossible to turn. Sent them back. Got a replacement set. I thought I was home free: then I got to the very last tuner. Almost impossible to turn. Back they went, and my old tuners went back on. I don't get it, because I've read such great reviews of them here. Perhaps they just had a bad run?

My little story: I have a mando that came with Golden Age tuners in nickel with ivoroid buttons. Worked great, nice and smooth, but I wanted black, so I had the identical set, but with black buttons put on. Well, these were tight and sticky. So... spoke with Stewmac, (great folks), and they tried a few while I was on the phone, and yup, for whatever reason, they said that the white ones they had in stock felt a "bit smoother" that the black ones. They sent me another set of black ones and indeed they were also quite stiff. Took these to work where we have some good engineers, and examined them together. Findings: the posts holding the worm gears are spread apart more as you go up from the plate, i.e., they flare out at a bit of an angle from the plate. This means that either the holes there the posts are pushed into the plate are a little too close, or else the worm gears are a little too long. And these have no bearings as do, for example Rubners. This means that while there is no slop, (a good thing), the worm is so tight against the posts that no mater what one does with lubricants, breaking in with a lots of rotation, (connecting and rotating buttons with a drill, etc.), they will never really become smooth. So, as reported in this and other threads, there really are "bad batches". Stewmac, as nice as they are, don't really have a clue here, but this whole particular batch is really garbage, and they really should have had a back to Jesus discussion with the manufacturers in Asia about it, and rejected them, but alas, not. They also, for some reason, have a more limited selection in black button than in white button tuners, so now I'll be looking at Siminoff who has wider choices, and others, (maybe also consider Rubner brand). Of course, need to be careful about spacing and post diameters, etc. - it would be nice to have a no-brainier, drop in place solution. All I want are black buttons on smooth as pudding tuning machines. BTW, the mandolin is a Passernig, can't say enough about it, it is a wonderful instrument!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I e-mailed Gotoh in Japan on Thursday asking if they could supply me with a set of 8 black tuner buttons - answer,NO !,
Ivan

[foldedpath]

so now I'll be looking at Siminoff who has wider choices, and others, (maybe also consider Rubner brand). Of course, need to be careful about spacing and post diameters, etc. - it would be nice to have a no-brainier, drop in place solution. All I want are black buttons on smooth as pudding tuning machines. BTW, the mandolin is a Passernig, can't say enough about it, it is a wonderful instrument!

For what it's worth (and your wallet won't like to hear this), I replaced the original Schaller tuners on my Lebeda F5 with gold/black button Waverly tuners a year ago, and couldn't be happier. I was mainly aiming for the black buttons and had some extra cash to spare at the time, so I just went for it. The Lebeda is (or was) a circa $5,000 instrument, which made it easy to justify tuners this expensive.

I wasn't expecting a major improvement in the mechanical action, open worm gear tuners being what they are. But the tuners I received do feel smoother and more precise. Not a night-and-day difference, just a subtle "ah yes, quality" feel to them.

I did the installation myself. I used the spec sheet on the Stewmac site to make sure the hole spacing was good, and that the Lebeda's headstock wasn't too wide (the shaft length on Waverly's requires a Gibson-spec headstock or they'll be too short). The only glitch I ran into was that the headstock holes were drilled wider than the Waverly bushings, so I just used the Shaller bushings and that worked fine. I also had to drill one new hole for each tuner plate, but the other holes lined up and this was easy to do.

I can't guarantee a DIY aftermarket installation like this will always go smoothly. There are a lot of factors here like bushing size, and the original headstock holes need to be drilled dead perpendicular to the surface or you'll get binding. In my case, it was pretty close to an easy drop-in fit, with just a few tweaks needed. If I could afford it right now (and I can't), I'd buy another set for my Weber F-style OM. That's another fine instrument that deserves better than the stock Schallers that are on it, now that I've seen what the Waverly's are like.

My only small complaint with the Waverly tuners -- aside from the cost, which is too high for what they are, and only mitigated by the niche status of the product -- is that Stewmac doesn't sell the combination of gold + black buttons. You have to buy the gold + pearl set, then buy the ebony buttons separately.

[Caleb]

My little story: I have a mando that came with Golden Age tuners in nickel with ivoroid buttons. Worked great, nice and smooth, but I wanted black, so I had the identical set, but with black buttons put on. Well, these were tight and sticky. So... spoke with Stewmac, (great folks), and they tried a few while I was on the phone, and yup, for whatever reason, they said that the white ones they had in stock felt a "bit smoother" that the black ones. They sent me another set of black ones and indeed they were also quite stiff. Took these to work where we have some good engineers, and examined them together. Findings: the posts holding the worm gears are spread apart more as you go up from the plate, i.e., they flare out at a bit of an angle from the plate. This means that either the holes there the posts are pushed into the plate are a little too close, or else the worm gears are a little too long. And these have no bearings as do, for example Rubners. This means that while there is no slop, (a good thing), the worm is so tight against the posts that no mater what one does with lubricants, breaking in with a lots of rotation, (connecting and rotating buttons with a drill, etc.), they will never really become smooth. So, as reported in this and other threads, there really are "bad batches". Stewmac, as nice as they are, don't really have a clue here, but this whole particular batch is really garbage, and they really should have had a back to Jesus discussion with the manufacturers in Asia about it, and rejected them, but alas, not. They also, for some reason, have a more limited selection in black button than in white button tuners, so now I'll be looking at Siminoff who has wider choices, and others, (maybe also consider Rubner brand). Of course, need to be careful about spacing and post diameters, etc. - it would be nice to have a no-brainier, drop in place solution. All I want are black buttons on smooth as pudding tuning machines. BTW, the mandolin is a Passernig, can't say enough about it, it is a wonderful instrument!

I agree that a talk with the supplier is in order here. I found my situation very frustrating because I really wanted the black tuners on my mandolin (still do). I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that Collings even uses these on their mandolins, which speaks of the potential quality of the tuners. I'm still bummed that I got tuners from a bad batch. Would've loved for it it to have worked out. I've gotten used to the pearly buttons on my Eastman but still think the black is very classy.

[Ron McMillan]

When my builder said he was changing to StewMacs in place of his earlier Grovers, I assumed he knew what he was doing. It turned out he must have known he was saving himself money, and delivering an expensive mandolin to me with junker tuners that would not be up to the task on a $200 mandolin. They look awful, the knobs are cheap plastic glued into place, and they don't do their job at all well. Big disappointment.

I decided I had to sort this out, so I have ordered beautiful hand-made tuner sets from Keith Robson in England. I will get them at the beginning of next month, and I can hardly wait.

[Joey Anchors]

I just ordered a set of Schaller MNI3 tuners to replace the Grover 304 stock units on my Gretsch.

[Denman John]

I have a mandolin coming in with Elite tuners on it. I've been told they have been re-worked by the builder and are very good. Just wondering what is a good replacement (installation wise) for the Elite tuners? I have Alessi's on my OM and really like them, so I'm looking for quality.

[Mike Bunting]

I have a mandolin coming in with Elite tuners on it. I've been told they have been re-worked by the builder and are very good. Just wondering what is a good replacement (installation wise) for the Elite tuners? I have Alessi's on my OM and really like them, so I'm looking for quality.

Well, Waverley's are up there too, I have them on two mandolins. I'm going to inquire about Robson tuner too.

[Ray(T)]

I e-mailed Gotoh in Japan on Thursday asking if they could supply me with a set of 8 black tuner buttons - answer,NO !,
Ivan

Ged showed me a whole range of Gotoh guitar tuners I'd never seen the like of before and which I can find neither hide nor hair of on the interweb thingy. Perhaps he might be able to get hold of some buttons for you?

For those of you thinking of Robson tuners, the postman tried to deliver a set to me this morning but, unfortunately, I was out. They've been over three months in the making so another couple of days should make no difference. Watch this space!

[Ron McMillan]

For those of you thinking of Robson tuners, the postman tried to deliver a set to me this morning but, unfortunately, I was out. They've been over three months in the making so another couple of days should make no difference. Watch this space!

I'm watching this space

My new Robsons were delivered to my daughter in London this week, for bringing out to Thailand this time next week. Really looking forward to seeing my daughter. Oh, and the Robsons.

rm

[Denman John]

Well, Waverley's are up there too, I have them on two mandolins. I'm going to inquire about Robson tuner too.

Are Waverley's a straight swap out for Elites? ~ Do the screw holes match up as well?

How about Robson or Alessi's?

[mandroid]

The peg head hole spacing precision has to be Spot on with Waverly's . it can be looser tolerances .
with the Stew Mac Elites ..

I bought a 3rd hand Mandolin that someone stuffed is some Waverly tuners ,
they bound 1 A string peg wouldn't turn at all .

down graded to Elites they worked fine , I keep using them ..

now IF you Hire a Skilled Luthier, and let them modify the peg head to the ideal non binding relation ship

to the necessary amount to let them work at their designed best , then, It may go Better..

the screw holes are different But if the job was left to someone Good ,
It wont Matter.

[bart mcneil]

If watch ebay "mandolin tuners" they do come up fairly regularly in good working condition. Certainly you can do better financially than buying new expensive fake antique tuners and you will have the real thing. I do this for my older mandolins with defunct tuners if I want to retain authenticity. In fact more than once I have bought an old damaged mando to salvage the tuners and tailpiece.

[Ray(T)]

I'm watching this space

My new Robsons were delivered to my daughter in London this week, for bringing out to Thailand this time next week. Really looking forward to seeing my daughter. Oh, and the Robsons.

rm

Hope you're watching Ron!

They're just like the picture you posted but with black ebony buttons. I asked Keith to make them a straight swap for the Golden Age tuners and they simply dropped in. I had to plug and re-drill the outermost screw holes but that was no big deal. I've kept the GA bushings, they seem fine, and I'll reconsider changing them the next time some work is due on the instrument.

Although they've only been on for 24 hours, they seem to have transformed my OM. Its easier to tune, seems to hold its tune better and an annoying rattle the GAs developed has gone.

For the true geeks out there; the Robsons weigh in at 83 grammes a side whereas the GAs are only 67.This isn't a problem to me but it might give some people around here a whole week of sleepless nights.

[Ron McMillan]

Hope you're watching Ron!

They're just like the picture you posted but with black ebony buttons. I asked Keith to make them a straight swap for the Golden Age tuners and they simply dropped in. I had to plug and re-drill the outermost screw holes but that was no big deal. I've kept the GA bushings, they seem fine, and I'll reconsider changing them the next time some work is due on the instrument.

Although they've only been on for 24 hours, they seem to have transformed my OM. Its easier to tune, seems to hold its tune better and an annoying rattle the GAs developed has gone.

For the true geeks out there; the Robsons weigh in at 83 grammes a side whereas the GAs are only 67.This isn't a problem to me but it might give some people around here a whole week of sleepless nights.

Sounds good. From what Keith told me, I was already expecting to have to re-drill the outer screw holes. Keith reckoned that the new holes and the old holes would not overlap. Was that what you found?

Mine arrive this weekend by private courier (my daughter bringing them from London to north Thailand). Then the next part of the adventure commences

[Joey Anchors]

The Schallers just came in and I installed them on the Gretsch. Super easy install!

[Perry Babasin]

I've had Golden Age F-style on my 600 for over a year now, and they are great! When they first came out of the box they were stiff but before putting them on the instrument I lubed and cranked them like crazy. On the instrument they are smooth and tight and hold tune very well. On top of that they look great!

[Randy Smith]

Just checking out the Stewart MacDonald Golden Age tuners. They look great and are only like $ 50 to $ 60 Compare to Waverly's being $ 520. Do you think the Golden Age can stand up to the Waverly's and do as good a job ???

Just to add to the He-Said, She-Said. . .

My Golden Agers have worked beautifully on my 1919 A-2. I'm sure others have had the same success with Waverlys and feel the extra cost is worth it. Ask yourself which pair might be right for you in terms of the instrument you have. If the instrument is very pricey, you might need the more expensive ones. I paid $1300. for my A-2, so I thought I might give the Stew Macs a shot.

[Caleb]

I've had Golden Age F-style on my 600 for over a year now, and they are great! When they first came out of the box they were stiff but before putting them on the instrument I lubed and cranked them like crazy. On the instrument they are smooth and tight and hold tune very well. On top of that they look great!

Love the look, and it's exactly what I was going for. Wish it would've worked!

[Ray(T)]

Sounds good. From what Keith told me, I was already expecting to have to re-drill the outer screw holes. Keith reckoned that the new holes and the old holes would not overlap. Was that what you found?

Mine arrive this weekend by private courier (my daughter bringing them from London to north Thailand). Then the next part of the adventure commences

Yes, the outer screw holes overlapped slightly and none of the 4 appeared to be consistently spaced. I also plugged and re-drilled one of the middle ones as the screws Keith provided were smaller that those holding the GAs.

I don't dispute what those of you who are happy with your GA tuners say. As Austin Clark (who built my OM) said in a recent post elsewhere; he has stopped using the Golden Age tuners as they are inconsistent.

I'm too old to put up with something I'm not happy with.

[Hallmark498]

Hello all!

What is the OP reason for getting new tuners (the old ones worn out, mando will not stay in tune, has money to burn ect?)

I have a Gibson Fern with the Schallers, they work great. Also have a Collings MF5 with Gotohs the work great (it came with white buttons and after epic fail trying to get black, I call Collings and they sent me a black set for, wait for it, FREE. Big +1 for them in my book) Have a Wade mandolin with Waverly, they work great.

So picking in order which tuner works the best would be Schaller, Waverly and Gotohs. For looks it would be Gotohs (gold with black buttons is where it is at) Waverly, Schallers

A big issue I had was getting my mandolins to stay in tune/get in tune. Problem was solved when I started locking my strings and dropped the coin on a peterson strob clip tuner (After a week of learning to use the peterson I like it so much that another for myself and my father)

Hope this helps