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Thread: String Breakage!

  1. #1
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    Default String Breakage!

    So long story short, I break strings.

    Occasionally on-stage, I completely shredded a d string once, but breakage mostly occurs when I put new ones on and tune up. Most frequent? The A and E strings.

    What can I do to eliminate this? Stretch them out a bit? (tune up, tune down, tune a little higher, tune down) Could there be a problem with my tuners? A metal burr on the posts? Usually breakage happens above the nut.

    Also, I have always used the quick method of string placement on tuners - simply put: string through.....get some tension, then run the extra backwards and hook under and over the string to lock it in place. Is there a better method? Or what works best for you?

    I've almost hit the point where I think i need to start playing J75's instead of J74's and utilizing the extra beef on the high e. If it's good enough for Ronnie

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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Not broken a string for over a decade; I suspect that its either something to do with your mandolin or how you're stringing it. Do they always break in the same place?

    I doubt whether heavier strings would make any difference - beefier strings = greater tension.

  3. #3
    noodlin' noodler PaulBills's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Usually it's because you're tightening them too quickly, they go "AAAAARRRGGHHH!!!" and snap to teach you a lesson
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    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Frets.com has a good primer on stringing, but the main point is that the post serves like a capstan on a boat---wrapping around it spreads the load along the length that is wrapped by adding friction. So you should wrap at least two complete turns--I like three or more turns for A and E, three for the D, and two turns for the G.

    Locking is not needed and it will not help protect the string from excessive force at the bend where it enters the post. Multiple turns should eliminate breakage at the post. I insert the string, keeping a couple of inches outside, clip some of it, bend it on both sides of the post, and wrap once or twice, taking care to wrap cleanly and downward. Then I hold it in place with a thumb while I tighten. I clip the remainder after fully tightening.
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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by TJe153 View Post
    The A and E strings...I have always used the quick method of string placement on tuners - simply put: string through.....get some tension, then run the extra backwards and hook under and over the string to lock it in place. Is there a better method? Or what works best for you?
    IMHO and experience, this method of string winding leads DIRECTLY to breakage at the post. You're putting the string thru the hole and immediately putting a sharp bend in it. Asking for it to break. I've always used the "old school" method that I learned when starting guitar about 35 years ago. For the wound strings (G & D) wrap the string around the post 3 times then pass through the hole, then tighten and cut off the excess. For the plain steel strings, (A & E) wrap 5 times before passing through the hole. The sharp bend is under no tension at all since the wraps take up the tension. Even if you have a bur on the post it will not cause a break with this method.

  6. #6

    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    IMHO and experience, this method of string winding leads DIRECTLY to breakage at the post. You're putting the string thru the hole and immediately putting a sharp bend in it. Asking for it to break. I've always used the "old school" method that I learned when starting guitar about 35 years ago. For the wound strings (G & D) wrap the string around the post 3 times then pass through the hole, then tighten and cut off the excess. For the plain steel strings, (A & E) wrap 5 times before passing through the hole. The sharp bend is under no tension at all since the wraps take up the tension. Even if you have a bur on the post it will not cause a break with this method.
    I have used the referenced method and have broken about half a dozen strings in forty some years and not at the post.

  7. #7
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bunting View Post
    I have used the referenced method and have broken about half a dozen strings in forty some years and not at the post.
    Same here. I guess there is more to that "running the extra backwards and hook under and over the string" than has been told. When I do that (plain strings only) there is never a breakage at the tuner. The only downside of this method comes when trying to remove the old string without bloodshed.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    I've never liked the idea of 'locking' a string onto the capstan for the reason given by Mandobart. The last time i broke a mandolin string was when i first began playing,9 years ago & that was because i overtightened the E strings. Other than that,i haven't broken a string in 50 years doing it the way i do it. Put the string onto the string pin/hook, & place a small piece of Blue-Tak over it to keep it in place.Both your hands are now free. Hold the string to the capstan & cut it to length. For the G & D strings,i usually cut them 1 1/4" past the capstan & for the A & E strings 2 1/4" is ok. I then push the string thro.the capstan hole until it pokes out the other side by 1/4" & then begin to wind on,holding the string length underneath the windings to keep the string well into the nut slot. I've never had a string break on mandolin,banjo or guitar doing it that way & removing them is dead easy. The only time i had a mandolin with 'locked on' strings, was when one i'd bought came to me that way. It took ages, fiddling around with a pair of wire snips & pliers to get the things off,
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    ...when i first began playing,9 years ago...
    ...i haven't broken a string in 50 years..
    Following from Einstein's special relativity, you'll have to do it while driving round the henhouse real fast

    ...small piece of Blue-Tak...
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Bertram - I've been playing banjo for 51 years,guitar for 20 & mandolin for 9. No riddle,just not stated in chronological order - & Blue-Tak is indeed a wonder material. It holds strings to string pins,a small piece placed under the lid of a standard 'tin' t/piece will prevent it rattling or sliding off if it's loose,& you can use a tiny piece to hold a spare pick on the side of your mandolin - endless uses,but don't chew it,the flavour's lousy !,
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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    IMHO and experience, this method of string winding leads DIRECTLY to breakage at the post. You're putting the string thru the hole and immediately putting a sharp bend in it. Asking for it to break. I've always used the "old school" method that I learned when starting guitar about 35 years ago. For the wound strings (G & D) wrap the string around the post 3 times then pass through the hole, then tighten and cut off the excess. For the plain steel strings, (A & E) wrap 5 times before passing through the hole. The sharp bend is under no tension at all since the wraps take up the tension. Even if you have a bur on the post it will not cause a break with this method.
    I have been playing and changing my own strings for fifty years on guitar and ten on mandolin and I do it the way the OP does it and never break strings at the post. Your method, while working for you, is way too much work for me, and this is the first time I have ever heard of doing it this way. I am convinced the OP has a different problem. I never wrap any of my strings around the post five times. Four is the maximum for the plain strings, wound strings get 2 to 3 winds. All after the string is through the hole. I agree with Bertram, that removing the string can be somewhat of an ordeal.
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Usually breakage happens above the nut.
    my best guess .. there may be some rough edges on the nut, there may be some binding (tight slot)
    and winding too quickly..
    let there be enough slack in the string to be wound around the capstan? 3 + wraps?
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    I have locked my string in for 20 years and can't remember breaking one. With the lock-in the string is one wrap or less around the post and seems to " stretch" less. I believe a lot of the stretching is taking up slack in the multiple winds on the post.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Guess: your nut slots are too narrow, they grab the string and don't let the tension distribute evenly along its length. The tension builds up between tuning peg and nut, and the string snaps.

    Lubricate the nut slots (powdered graphite or a #2 pencil rubbed in the slots before attaching the strings); see if that helps.

    Tighten slowly, try to equalize tension on both sides of the nut by wiggling the string a bit as you tighten. Before you put on your next 1st and 2nd strings, check out the nut slots with a magnifying glass; see if they seem unduly narrow.

    I always "lock" the strings when attaching them, and don't break strings when first installing and tuning them. The isolated instances of string breakage I've encountered have either been through really heavy picking, or through tuning an older string up and down in pitch (such as using alternate tunings on 5-string banjo).

    There's something amiss with your mandolin if strings break recurrently, rather than occasionally. The top two courses of a mandolin are stretched pretty tight, but good quality strings should be able to take that tension, whether "locked" at the tuning peg or not.
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    Registered User mandobassman's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    I don't know that the locking the string method directly leads to string breakage. Lots of players have done it this way for years without issues. I have never done it this way but instead have threaded the string through the hole with enough slack for about 3 to 4 turns of the tuner to bring it up to tension. Some have suggested bringing up to tension too quickly. I bring mine up to tension very quickly with a string winder with no problems. I have broken less than a half dozen strings in 40 years. I agree with Allen and Mandroid that there is something else going on and it should be checked. It could end up costing a fortune in strings.
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Well .... I use the same method of securing strings at the post that you use and I rarely break a string during installation of a new set. I do take my time bringing the E and A strings up to concert pitch. I bring them up to a whole step below and let them settle for five or ten minutes then I bring them on up to standard. Also check your mandolins posts and make sure that they were not left "sharp" from that original machining. Luck... E/
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  19. #17
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wright View Post
    Frets.com has a good primer on stringing <snip>
    Locking is not needed and it will not help protect the string from excessive force at the bend where it enters the post.
    Sorry, it looks like Mr. Ford advocates the locking method.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I use that same method and rarely ever break any strings on mandolin or guitar. K have a pretty heavy hand on guitar but still have little breakage except where the strings are pretty old. As other have asked the OP, where do the strings break and is it always the same place?
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Oops, should have done my own research. I read over the mandolin-stringing page and have some quibbles. The main one is comparing the concave-profile pegs in his "good" example:Click image for larger version. 

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    with stubby straight-sided pegs in the "bad" example of over-winding:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think this is clean and effective, and it also allows re-use, since there is a useful length of string before the bend:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I note they don't lock the string for pianos--the bend plus a few turns is enough with the stiff wire:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Personally, I wish someone would make a set of split-peg tuners like the old Fender system. No nasty exposed ends to cause puncture wounds. It was annoying if a peg broke, but presumably stronger metal than Kluson used would help.
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    Registered User CaskAle's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    I've had an odd recurring problem with breaking E strings whilst slacking the strings. I did it just yesterday, but fortunately was in the process of changing the old strings out so not a problem (except for the pain of getting string-whipped). I've also done it several times whilst tuning down to open D. Each time the string broke at the capstan. I use the thread through, kink the string to lock and wind on, as I had done with guitar for 20 plus years with no issues.

    I have absolutely no idea what is going on here. Breaking when tuning up I can get my head around....
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  22. #20
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaskAle View Post
    I've had an odd recurring problem with breaking E strings whilst slacking the strings. I did it just yesterday, but fortunately was in the process of changing the old strings out so not a problem (except for the pain of getting string-whipped). I've also done it several times whilst tuning down to open D. Each time the string broke at the capstan. I use the thread through, kink the string to lock and wind on, as I had done with guitar for 20 plus years with no issues.

    I have absolutely no idea what is going on here. Breaking when tuning up I can get my head around....
    I think I can tell you exactly what is happening, as it has happened to me. When slacking strings, the tension they exert on the neck relieves, which allows the neck to straighten out a bit, which lengthens all the strings. So, the non-slacked strings are now sharper than they were before, and SNAP! This first happened to me on a 5-string fiddle. Changing strings I slacked the E, then the C, then the A, then the G, then the D in the middle went snap before I could loosen it. Now when changing strings I first flat each string a half step, then change the strings one course at a time.

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  24. #21
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Tom - Your second photo is exactly the way i've fitted strings for 50 + years - as easy as pie & i've never had one break or come loose & removing them is just as easy,
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: String Breakage!

    Well hmmmm.

    I lock, and I keep all strings up to tension as I change them one at a time. And I hardly ever ever have a string break during changing.

    It was a recurring problem a couple of years or so ago, (broke several e strings in a row) I am almost sure I had gotten some of the counterfeit D'Addario J74 packs. There is a thread somewhere about this. I went back to store where I got them, and they replaced them all. When looking at the e strings right out of the pack, very closely, I noticed some flat spots, as if a tiny crimp. Not sure if that was the cause or an irrelevant detail.

    In any event, after that incident, I haven't had a single break. And I inspect my e and a strings now and again, and have never seen those little flat crimpy spots again.

    I understand the arguments for and against locking, and down tuning the strings not being replaced, but I just haven't noticed a problem either way.
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