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Thread: First Truss Rod F4

  1. #1
    Registered User Gary Hedrick's Avatar
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    Default First Truss Rod F4

    Was the Bellson F4 the first with a truss rod? It is the earliest one that I know of.

  2. #2
    Registered User Gary Hedrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    The thrust of my question stems from a message I received from the 1921 F4 that I have for sale on the Cafe'. The inference was that this might not be a '21 because all the 1921's he had seen had truss rods. I don't think I was believed when I replied that of all the experiments that went on in '21 with F4's the truss rod was the last. Now if one were to say all 1922's had truss rods I might believe that but still knowing the Gibson penchant for never being consistent there might be on lurking out there....especially in light of Joe Spann's book...

  3. #3
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    There's one slightly earlier in the mandolinarchives

    http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/64386


    The Bellson one is 66xxx

    I'd put start of 1922 somewhere in the early 68xxx

    and the start of 1921 somewhere around mid to late 64xxx

    Truss rod does not seem to be consistently there until late 69xxx (spring 1922) with only a handful prior to that range
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  4. #4

    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I always have believed the truss rod occurs in 1922. I have had tons of F4's, and have never seen a 1921 with a truss rod.

  5. #5
    Registered User Gary Hedrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I had always thought along the lines of Darryl................side note though...I think Ken has owned more great F4's than anyone period......thanks to both of you for your inputs

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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I have an F4, sn 69909, so its Spring 1922, good to know, thanks for what its worth, here it is in action ....

  7. #7

    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    Fantastic job, Kevin! Fine playing and a beautiful sounding F4.

  8. #8

    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    That's what an F4 is all about! They are lovely instruments.

  9. #9
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    There are a couple others in the archive with earlier serials & truss rods, but the one Darryl listed is the first without an question marks or obvious re-work around it
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    Registered User tim noble's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I have 1922 F 4 mandoln-17080. fon 11548 with no truss rod. Joe Spann explained that it is from an early batch of Cremona finished ones the remained in the factory for up to 6 months before serial numbered and sold. So it seems that serial #s are not a reliable indicator of when it was made. Do we know the earliest FON with truss rods?
    Tim

  11. #11
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    Quote Originally Posted by tim noble View Post
    I have 1922 F 4 mandoln-17080. fon 11548 with no truss rod. Joe Spann explained that it is from an early batch of Cremona finished ones the remained in the factory for up to 6 months before serial numbered and sold. So it seems that serial #s are not a reliable indicator of when it was made. Do we know the earliest FON with truss rods?
    Tim
    Tim, I do not understand your post. Is there a typo there...if not, what makes you think it's a '22.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

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  13. #13

    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    All the Cremonas I have ever heard of, or owned, are from 1921.

  14. #14
    Registered User tim noble's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    71080 is correct.
    Darryl
    I posted this instrument here a year or so ago. Joe responded
    "So, in this specific instance we have an F-4 that was constructed in early in 1922 (probably January), but not shipped until the fall of 1922." I simply relied on Joe's knowledge. Thread is here.
    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...429#post946429
    Tim

  15. #15

    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I have 68472 with a truss rod/adj. bridge. Beat up but best sounding mando I have owned of 15 or so. http://soundcloud.com/stevemando/nelly-bly-22-f4

  16. #16
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    Spann's Guide does list 11548 as a 1922 FON with an F-4 exemplar.
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  17. #17
    Registered User tim noble's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I was hoping Joe or Darryl would chime in on this. Looking at instruments with truss rods (including some of the early Cremona F4s), it appears that they built some truss rodded instruments in mid - late 1921 but continued with non truss rodded into early 1922. Was this just the inconsistencies with Gibson, old stock in the white, or just an experimental phasing into the slimmer adjustable neck that resulted in the Loar period instruments? Some knowledgable posters have stated that all Cremona finished F4s were from 1921 but Joe's information notes the the first (earliest) fons indicate ca January of 1922. Not that it really matters but it is an interesting question.
    Tim

  18. #18
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    Tim,

    I'll be honest with you. Your mandolin seems to defy a hypothesis. The early truss rods make sense. Your mandolin possessing a 1922 serial number AND a FON of correct relationship to the serial number BUT no truss rod is baffling when trying to use our historical knowledge

    My best guess is that they simply used up a few necks...especially those with the inlay so very low like yours. OR...somebody wanted the wider neck and ordered it that way.

    The other baffling thing is that Gibson was NOT being grossly inconsistent when your mandolin was made. That came later.
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  20. #19
    Registered User Hadji36's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I just purchased Gibson F4 SN: 68472 referenced above by SteveM. Amazing sounding mandolin.

    It has a truss rod. The Factory Order Number is 11590. I cross checked that FON against the Mandolin Archive and it appears to be of the first batch of F4's which had been fitted with truss rods. Mine is built with the extended "Flowerpot/Torch" which is under the TRC. Quite possibly the "crossovers." Is anyone able to verify?

    A couple others listed from FON: 11590 are:

    SN: 68363 FON: 11590 is listed as "Gibson F4 Mandolin; Red finish. truss rod"
    SN: 68477 FON: 11590 is listed as "1921 Gibson F4 Mandolin; Red sunburst finish. truss rod."
    Click image for larger version. 

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  21. #20
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I know this was a Scroll Lovers thread but for the humble Paddle head..

    I have a '22* A4, they certainly wanted to Highlight the addition of the TR , with an Un Subtile

    Nickel plated TRC. Hard to read those old pencil numbers. 67219 as near as i can gather .
    7 could be another 9

    * emailed the number to Gibson, years ago, and hey said 1922.
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  22. #21
    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    I have FON # 11639 (unreadable serial #),sheraton brown paddle head A-2 with metal truss rod cover. Corresponding numbers in and around that FON in spanns put it at 1922. I had the metal top bridge for it but can't seem to locate it at the moment.Killer sounding loud mandolin.
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  23. #22
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    Default Re: First Truss Rod F4

    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon Hughes View Post
    I have FON # 11639 (unreadable serial #),sheraton brown paddle head A-2 with metal truss rod cover. Corresponding numbers in and around that FON in spanns put it at 1922. I had the metal top bridge for it but can't seem to locate it at the moment.Killer sounding loud mandolin.
    I have the same era A-2 #68762 Wonderful mandolin.
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