Best pickup solution

[BriTrudeau]

Hi all. Wonder if you can help. I bought a mandolin badged with the `Vintage` headstock last year because it was solid top, sides and back, and the only one like that that fell in my price range! Anyway, I`m well pleased with it acoustically, but I want to use if for gigs and the old pickup problem rears it`s head. I`ve tried stickon pickups before and not been happy with the tone, or volume and am open to suggestions really. Trouble is, I dont want one that has to be removed every time I put it in the case, or one I can accidentally pull off, ( I know that rules out quite a few) I got my luthier to put in one that fitted under the bridge, and he fitted a jack socket which was my preferred way to go. Still though, when we gig, it`s too quiet and needs boosting with a preamp. Is there nothing more powerful out there? Are there really so few to choose from? I`d be interested to know what people have done with theirs

[billhay4]

I had Pete at vintagevibeguitars make me one that screws to the fretboard. He can also do internal pickups and ones that mount to a pickguard. Quite nice work and not exorbitant.
Bill

[Steve Lavelle]

It's not clear from your description what style of mandolin you have. If it's got F holes, and probably even with an oval hole, It's doubtful you can find a pickup system that doesn't require a preamp. A preamp on board requires a battery and that means you need access to that battery and any volume and tone controls associated with those. There are some mandolins on the market that have pickups with an integral preamp and controls , but those mandolins have a hole cut in their sides to make room for the battery and controls (Michael Kelly has a model with integrated electronics).

[BriTrudeau]

Thanks for your replies guys. I should have mentioned it`s an F style mando and I`m in the UK. Have any of you played a mando with the integral preamp and controls cut into them? Did you feel it affected the sound adversely?

It's not clear from your description what style of mandolin you have. If it's got F holes, and probably even with an oval hole, It's doubtful you can find a pickup system that doesn't require a preamp. A preamp on board requires a battery and that means you need access to that battery and any volume and tone controls associated with those. There are some mandolins on the market that have pickups with an integral preamp and controls , but those mandolins have a hole cut in their sides to make room for the battery and controls (Michael Kelly has a model with integrated electronics).

[almeriastrings]

Why would you need the preamp built in, anyway? Just get a separate preamp. You don't even have to spend a lot......

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-AD...ehringer+ad121

These are surprisingly decent and will do what you want easily.

[UsuallyPickin]

Yeah ........ a preamp is the way to go in this instance . Whether it's built in to the amp, or a separate unit between the instrument and amp or sound board it is a necessary bit of gear. The up side to this is that using a preamp gives the player additional tonal adjustments / possibilities to suit his instrument and personal taste. Also, as these units can be battery powered it can be placed near enough to tweak as needed........... R/

[BriTrudeau]

I guess the reason I`m thinking along these lines is I have to swap between 4 instruments during a gig; and its so much easier if the impedances are roughly the same. I use a Boss pedalboard and I`ve got a GE-7 graphic out on load I`m thinking of getting back. Do you feel that would be sufficient? Thanks

Why would you need the preamp built in, anyway? Just get a separate preamp. You don't even have to spend a lot......

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-AD...ehringer+ad121

These are surprisingly decent and will do what you want easily.

[almeriastrings]

The GE7 has a 1M input impedance... so it is high enough for most piezo transducers. The main issue will be whether it has adequate gain for the transducer you have fitted and the only way to find out would be try it. I rather suspect you'd get a better result overall from the AD 121, however. That really does work very well as a low cost solution for matching piezo transducers to PA systems and amps. For running multiple instruments, a small sub-mixer with channel mutes is one simple solution.

[BriTrudeau]

Yeah, I`ve asked for it back, so I`ll give it a try. I hope it does work, because good as the AD121 does seem, and cheap, I use the boss box in front of me and space is very limited, it`s a pity that thing`s so large. Let you know how I get on

The GE7 has a 1M input impedance... so it is high enough for most piezo transducers. The main issue will be whether it has adequate gain for the transducer you have fitted and the only way to find out would be try it. I rather suspect you'd get a better result overall from the AD 121, however. That really does work very well as a low cost solution for matching piezo transducers to PA systems and amps. For running multiple instruments, a small sub-mixer with channel mutes is one simple solution.

[mandroid]

when we gig, it`s too quiet and needs boosting with a preamp. Is there nothing more powerful out there?

there is, A bit higher output, AKG and Shertler are microphones that are in contact with the Top ,
so you can plug into a Mic Preamp on Mixers and acoustic mic+ instrument 2 channel amps ..

But why not just buy and use the preamp for what you already Own? piezos need a particular preamp type ..

that is what they are for.. adds tone and volume controls,
without punching in more holes in your mandolin..

onboard pre needs holes for the extra controls and a 9v battery .

[Mandobart]

I guess the reason I`m thinking along these lines is I have to swap between 4 instruments during a gig; and its so much easier if the impedances are roughly the same. I use a Boss pedalboard and I`ve got a GE-7 graphic out on load I`m thinking of getting back. Do you feel that would be sufficient? Thanks

I've used JJB twin piezo element pickups in everything from fiddle to upright bass. Just place them internally under the soundboard where the bridge feet contact. I use the K&K Pure preamp with all. I don't know what to tell you if its too much trouble to turn down the volume pot, unplug one instrument to the preamp, plug in the new instrument, turn the pot back up (maybe tweaking the 3 tone pots as needed) and play...

[mandroid]

After a while Pickup questions seem like 'what kind of Car is best'..
after which people support what they bought.

If the OP likes the acoustic tone, whats wrong with a Microphone?

Soundboard pickups hear mostly what they are attached to.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

K&K twin is a great pickup for mandolin. I personally like going through a small acoustic amp like a Fishman Loudbox, Phil Jones or AER. You can get a very realistic tone, as plugged in tone goes, especially if you take time and experiment aggressively with eq.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Volume level, Mandroid. That's usually the only issue.

[mandroid]

Then you drop the acoustic and go for a solid body so the on-stage sound level
doesn't turn the top into a Microphone diaphragm with the pickup closing the loop.

If you have a decent sound board OP, then they sort out the levels on stage
so the house hears you plenty loud, without feedback ..

[John Flynn]

I play both mando and OM plugged in every week at church. I was using a Baggs preamp that was decent, but I wanted a better sound. After some online research, I settled on the RedEye. The sound is "night and day" better than the Baggs. I never thought piezo pickups could sound so good. BTW, I have the factory pickup in my Rigel and a K&K Twin in my Mendel OM.

FWIW, the K&K puts out a lot more signal than the Rigel. To match the volumes, I have to keep the gain down to 25% on the former, while the latter needs 75%.

[mandroid]

me: Schertler C-Dyn in the CF Mix A5, have a Dyn M, I got first, I put it on anything with a resonant soundboard.

Plugs in to a Mic Pre on any mix board or my AC-60 Amp ..

[F54ever]

First, I agree with Mandroid. We all like what we chose as long as it works for us.

I have been up and down this road many times over the years and never found a pickup solution that could produce the sound of even a decent condenser mic. Or an SM-57 for that matter. I use a CAD pencil condenser for bluegrass and am totally hooked on how it picks up the woody tone of my mandolin. Using a pickup system for country, Americana, and folk/rock has always been a let down.

I just ran across the Myers piezo system and gave it a try. It's affordable, easily comes on and off of the mandolin, and is the closest I have found in my 30 years of playing to a mic'd solution. I run it through a Baggs Venue DI mainly for EQ, solo boost (competing with everything else on stage that's run through an amp), and the onboard tuner. It's the closest thing to a good mic that I've seen on the market. I suppose that's because it's not a pickup, it IS a condenser mic.

Check it out here: http://www.myerspickups.com/

You won't see the carpenter bracket on his website (yet). But it will soon be a standard product. You can view a few pics of it mounted on my F-5 in my profile.

[almeriastrings]

I have been up and down this road many times over the years and never found a pickup solution that could produce the sound of even a decent condenser mic. Or an SM-57 for that matter.

+1.

I really don't like playing with a pickup. The only time I'm forced to use one is at gigs where there are problems with the sound and the person on the desk hasn't got a clue. With a transducer (I use an AKG C411 with Headway EDB-2 pre in that case), I can just tell them to leave all the EQ flat, set the channel fader half way up, and I'll manage the rest myself! The AKG is also a condenser transducer, and (for a pickup) is at least tolerable.

[almeriastrings]

Check it out here: http://www.myerspickups.com/

I just checked it out

Why are they calling this a pickup and where does the 'piezo' bit fit in? I'm kind of baffled by that. It is a true microphone, not a pickup at all...

It is clearly a generic min lav mic electret element, and there must be a small FET buffer amp in the box. In short, it is a (very) cheap alternative to a DPA or AT PRo 35.... with a small preamp and vol control in the box. The specifications on the site are very sparse... with little meaningful detail. A lot of words - not much information! Have to say I would not let that sucker (literally) anywhere near one of my instrument finishes....

[Jim]

I too feel microphones are the way to go but recently have been playing outside on the sidewalk in front of a store. The environment is noisy due to traffic and there isn't much room for mic stands. I have put one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Piezo-P...item33923b4ec5 in a beater guitar and Mandolin and am running them through a behringer acoustic pre amp. I am quite pleased with the sound in this very restrictive environment. Have run it into a Kustom Powered Mixer or a Behringer acoustic amp with good results.

[dcoventry]

This?

[Varin]

There was another thread about the Myers pickup recently. It's now on the second page of threads. I posted some sound samples in that thread. I'm still happy with mine. I have had feedback issues a couple of times, but only at stage jams that tend to get pretty loud. In both cases, the sound guy was able to get it tweaked in eventually.

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