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Thread: Open A F-chop

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    Default Open A F-chop

    Practicing Old Joe Clark in G, I have finally gotten to where I can make the chord change from G to F consistently. The problem I'm having is with chopping that F (5-3-0-1) and the open A string continuing to ring. I find that I can slightly roll my left hand down to deaden one of the two A strings, but not the one closest to the E strings, and even then I tend to get a bad buzzing of sorts. Suggestions?

  2. #2
    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Yea, play 5-7-8-5 or 2-3-3-x
    We few, we happy few.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Play the shape, 5-3-3-5.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by John Ritchhart View Post
    Yea, play 6-7-4-x
    You sure? That looks like some kind of A chord, C#-A-C#
    Since the correction, this post is now declared relevant!
    Last edited by Mike Bunting; Jul-12-2014 at 4:38pm.

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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    the 2-3-x-x double stop works fine too

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    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Yea Mike I was going from G to A. Wrong chord sorry. I fixed it eventually.
    We few, we happy few.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by sgarrity View Post
    the 2-3-x-x double stop works fine too
    As does the 5-3 double stop, just 'cause I kinda like the sound of the one and fifth as opposed to the the one and third. Personal taste is all.

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    jbmando RIP HK Jim Broyles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    If you play 5301 with your ring, middle and index fingers, respectively, you should be able to deaden the A strings with your pinky. I prefer this shape for an F chop, Bluegrass Police notwithstanding!
    "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp

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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Since I do play the 5301 as you said, I'll give the pinky trick a try. It never crossed my mind.

    I do think the 5301 is the best voicing in this case, save that open ringing after. Both those double-stops sound good too, but I'd really like to get the chop right on the 5301.

  13. #10
    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    +1 on the 5301 pinky mute. It does take some practice to get the timing right. I find the optimal motion to be just a flick of the pinky across the strings to stop the vibration, nothing more. You can use it with any open chord.

    Also, I would only worry about it if you are going to do a series of chops on the F. We were playing a bluegrassy-sounding tune in D at church yesterday and I was chopping. The tune had a part that went G - F - C, with only time for two quick chops on the F. I did 5301 and didn't every worry about the open A, which really only sounded once, because after the second chop, it was immediately muted by the move from F to C. I concentrate on the bass strings while chopping anyway, only lightly brushing the A course. So I think context is important.

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    Diving Deeper Marc Ferry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    If you still want to use that 5-3-0-1 shape and not a replacement, try completely flattening out your ring finger right after you hit the chord, so that it is flat and touches the three bottom strings. That's what works for me on this shape; you could also do the pinky mute, as people are mentioning above.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    7-9-10-10 for the G and 5-7-8-8 for the F.
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    So, the 6-7-4-x chord that was mentioned above - is that a plain ol' A chord, or a variation of some sort. I apologize for my theory ignorance, but I am always on the lookout for new shapes.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    It's a partial A chord. If you include the open E it's a complete A chord.
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by journeymanjohn View Post
    Practicing Old Joe Clark in G, I have finally gotten to where I can make the chord change from G to F consistently. The problem I'm having is with chopping that F (5-3-0-1) and the open A string continuing to ring. I find that I can slightly roll my left hand down to deaden one of the two A strings, but not the one closest to the E strings, and even then I tend to get a bad buzzing of sorts. Suggestions?
    Hope you're also learning (or have already learned) OJC in A, which many fiddlers want to play in tune in. Besides, it'll be handy to play the tune in two keys.
    Do you have any advice for aspiring fiddlers?
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    Don't eat so much. --Barbara Lamb

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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Yep. My teacher said he starts the newbies, like me, on OJC in G, but everyone plays it in A. I've still got some work to do on it in G. Still working on that ringing open A problem, for one, and also working on making a smooth transition from chopping the rhythm to picking the tune and back, in time. I'm pretty sure he is going to want to increase the speed too.

    I have been piddling around with it in A over the last week though, and have added the A and C scales to my practice routine (just because).

    Frankly, after two months of nothing but G scale exercises and OJC, I'm pretty well sick of this tune.... I literally dream it. Will be glad to get it done in A and move on to something else.....anything else. I figure it'll be a couple-three more months though at the rate it is going... and that's just playing it straight, with just a little swing on the 8th notes. Haven't even started hammers and pull offs, or slides, or double stops, or whatever else. I could be on this tune for years, I guess.

  21. #17

    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by journeymanjohn View Post
    Yep. My teacher said he starts the newbies, like me, on OJC in G, but everyone plays it in A. I've still got some work to do on it in G.......I could be on this tune for years, I guess.
    It will only feel like years. If nothing else, the boredom will force you to move onto something else (like Whiskey Before Breakfast or...). One thing to consider or question; is your progress tied to the pace of your teacher's lessons or is slow learning of the G exercises and OJC the culprit? In a lesson, you're kinda stuck with what the teacher wants to present that day unless you say "can we work on (fill in the blank)". In between lessons, you're free to investigate anything that suits you and at some point, something will grab your fancy which, if you are still taking lessons, you will want to explore in more depth with your teacher.

    I've been playing mandolin for 40 or so years and I still take a lesson every month with a local musician. Mandolin is not his strongest instrument although he is still better than me. He is a fabulous Django/Tony Rice/BG style guitarist who doubles on banjo (and bass and trombone, sousaphone and tuba). I take the lessons mostly to play with an excellent musician. We don't get into any basic technical issues like chord changes, positions and fingerings per se, but he does suggest ways to fill in those spaces between chords to compliment the rhythm while exploring the melody. Sometimes the lesson is learning a tune that his acoustic band plays. My point is, you might want to think about whether your teacher is beating a topic to death vs. you may have moved on to something else already (at least intellectually if not yet in your fingers).

    Len B.
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    No, it is NOT my teachers fault, in any way, shape, or form. I specifically let him know that I have a tendency to try to run before I can walk in things, and I would like to avoid that with his help. I also only take lessons on a "one off" basis. When I feel I have learned whatever the assignment was/is, I schedule another one hour lesson. Typically every three weeks to a month. As he runs a local music store, he is also available for the very quick drop in, for a question or two. He is very busy with sales, repairs, other peoples lessons, management, etc.... so those drop in questions are rushed. He typically goes long on the actual lesson though.

    I discuss my lessons, with a very good friend of mine who has been a professional bass player for nearly thirty years, and he thinks my teacher is "doing it right".

    I am just looking forward to that "graduation day" when my teacher says, "Ok, let's move on to......."

    I do have a buddy who brings his guitar over occasionally who does the James Taylor finger style of playing, however I am a bit overwhelmed with trying to learn all the minor sevenths, and add9, stuff that goes along with James Taylor. So, I've mellowed that out quite a bit. Was great watching his fingers to learn what the corresponding chord shapes look like on the guitar, but it was much to much too fast, especially when he started using the capo. Plus the bluegrass chop I'm learning doesn't go well with that play, and i don't know the scales for the different keys yet to play notes along with.

    In time....

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    Registered User belbein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    I play occasionally with a fabulous guitarist. He plays rings around me on any string instrument. I just enjoy playing with him, and if he's playing those minor augmented ionic 12th diminished whatevers and I'm just sticking to the ol' I/IV/V ... it still sounds pretty damn good. Largely because of him, but hey, I get to make noise, too.
    belbein

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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bunting View Post
    Play the shape, 5-3-3-5.
    ...or 53xx and 75xx. The top strings are easily muted.

  26. #21
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    simple 2 finger Double stops . 23(o\x)x F , 2,A + F notes
    3rd and root,1st, just lacks the C, the 5th.

    45xx for the G just mofe the same 2 up.

    5335 >7557 same deal just move up 2fr.
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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bunting View Post
    Play the shape, 5-3-3-5.
    Or the 2335. For G I usually use 4557 (at least when the bluegrass police aren't around ), so then for F you could easily slide down to 2335. bb

  28. #23

    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by bohemianbiker View Post
    Or the 2335. For G I usually use 4557 (at least when the bluegrass police aren't around ), so then for F you could easily slide down to 2335. bb
    Why the wisecrack about BG police, far as I know there is no rule about a chord voicing (I am a hardcore blue grasser), it's an aesthetic choice as it is in my preference for my F voicing simply because I like the fifth on the bottom.

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    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bunting View Post
    Why the wisecrack about BG police, far as I know there is no rule about a chord voicing (I am a hardcore blue grasser), it's an aesthetic choice as it is in my preference for my F voicing simply because I like the fifth on the bottom.
    My apologies; the comment was intended to be along the lines of good-natured ribbing, not mean-spirited.

    The comment was borne of a couple experiences I've had a jams where BG musicians (who were being friendly and helpful), suggested I use 7523 instead of 4557 for G. 4557 is the first chord I learned on mando, and I undoubtedly overuse it. That said, I can't say that I ever see anyone else using it, so I like to suggest it. bb

  30. #25

    Default Re: Open A F-chop

    Quote Originally Posted by bohemianbiker View Post
    My apologies; the comment was intended to be along the lines of good-natured ribbing, not mean-spirited.

    The comment was borne of a couple experiences I've had a jams where BG musicians (who were being friendly and helpful), suggested I use 7523 instead of 4557 for G. 4557 is the first chord I learned on mando, and I undoubtedly overuse it. That said, I can't say that I ever see anyone else using it, so I like to suggest it. bb
    I thought that you'd maybe had a bad experience. Your voicing makes a real smooth transition to the C in that position.

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