Starting out with Jams, Fast or Slow

[LongBlackVeil]

I havent been to the jams in my city yet. Ive played with a couple of friends but thats about it, we basically only played songs that i knew, so it was pretty easy to have fun, and nothing like a typical jam.

I have two choices, There is the regular old typical bluegrass jam and then there is another one run by the same people, but this one is called an "intermediate slow bluegrass/old time jam"

Which do you think would be better for me to attend? Ive only been playing mandolin a couple of months, but i think im alot further along than you would think because ive been playing guitar for quite awhile before this. Also ive really been trying to learn my stuff because i find mandolin really enjoyable.

I basically know major scales, how to shift them around,one major arpeggio shape, i know the 3 major chop chord shapes and how to move them around as well. I dont think ill have any trouble at all with rhythm playing really. I have a good sense of time.

But i really want to take a break or two and im not sure ill be able to do that at full speed. What do you guys think

[spufman]

If you can comfortably play along with a disc along the lines of what you'll encounter and sound good, consistently, then go for it! I can't always maintain that level of intensity that is most bluegrass.

[LongBlackVeil]

I've been practicing along to the song "on and on" as it's one of my favorites, and I'll probably pick that song to play if they want me to call one out.

I can sound sound halfway decent on it with my breaks, I simply play that major arpeggio for whichever chord is being played (g,c,d for that song) and add blue notes. Though it sounds half decent, it doesn't really sound like bluegrass to me

[fatt-dad]

they must be at two separate times if it's the same people. Go to both. Bring a pen and write down the tunes that they play. Learn those. I mean you can call the tunes you know when the call comes to you (if they work that way), but usually the same folks call the same few tunes. Just seems to work that way. . .

Having their play lists will give you some idea of which jam you want to return to (maybe stay with both) and tunes for practice. Typically too, old-time jams are unison playing without focus on breaks. You can play melody as you want or you can work on your chording, not necessarily just chopping chords that is.

Enjoy!

f-d

p.s., I just play old-time, but recently happened onto a bluegrass jam and had fun.

[Denny Gies]

Go to the "big boy" one and then if you are uncomfortable, next time go to the intermediate. You'll never know if you don't try.

[LongBlackVeil]

they must be at two separate times if it's the same people. Go to both. Bring a pen and write down the tunes that they play. Learn those. I mean you can call the tunes you know when the call comes to you (if they work that way), but usually the same folks call the same few tunes. Just seems to work that way. . .

Having their play lists will give you some idea of which jam you want to return to (maybe stay with both) and tunes for practice. Typically too, old-time jams are unison playing without focus on breaks. You can play melody as you want or you can work on your chording, not necessarily just chopping chords that is.

Enjoy!

f-d

p.s., I just play old-time, but recently happened onto a bluegrass jam and had fun.

Your right they are on separate days, it's possible that I go to both. But it might come down to picking one or the other because of work and kids.
_
The cool thing about the bluegrass jam is they have a big list of all the songs they play and in groups, such as "top ten" and "other favorites" so I've made it a point to try and learn the top ten lists as well as I can before the jam. I know 7 out of 10 of them right now. At least I know how to play the straight melodies and chords, I havent gotten good enough to improvise on all of them yet

Though I do think that some of the songs that I learned off banjobenclark's website already have some embellishments and blues notes built into them

[Ivan Kelsall]

Go to every jam you can !. Even if you don't play,if it's a good session & especially if the players are good,you'll always learn something.It's surprising what you can pick up from other musicians just by watching & listening - i wish i was so lucky !,
Ivan

[JeffD]

Go to both. If a particular song is above your ability or unfamiliar, do what you can and learn where you can improve. If the song or set is well within your capability, enjoy it, and work on playing more musically.

As Ivan says go to every jam you can manage to get to. Learn everything you can. Just go after it.

[LongBlackVeil]

Trust me if I have the ability to go to both, I will for sure. The problem is both of these jams are about an hour away for me (I live out in the country in Texas) and I don't know if I can get away from work for both. But I've promised myself to try and make at least one

I guess the biggest problem Im having choosing is I don't know my direction. I'm really not even sure what direction I'm heading with my mandolin, I'm kind of all over the place haha. I love old time, BG, itm, jazz, blues, all of it.

I just got a very nice handheld zoom recorder though and I plan to record whatever jam I'm a part of. I think this will help a lot and let me get the most out of it.

[fatt-dad]

Join the "song of the week" social club. Click around on their table of contents link. Maybe you'll recognize a tune or two. Click on that tune and see the thread of folks playing their renditions.

I love playing melody lines of old-time fiddle tunes. I can sit down anywhere and any time and play an hour or to of fiddle tunes. Just issuing from my head, fingers and instrument. It's therapy. So, learn a dozen fiddle tunes - four in A, G, and D. It's great warm up to more complicated practice too.

Enjoy it though.

f-d

[LongBlackVeil]

Funny I just counted all the fiddle tunes I know and I got exactly a dozen

These are the ones I know

Whiskey before breakfast
Billy in the lowground
Old joe Clark
Soldiers joy
Blackberry blossom
Arkansas traveler
Red haired boy
Bill Cheatum
St Anne's reel
Swallowtail jig
Beaumont rag
Southern flavor

I do have trouble with some spots on Beaumont rag and billy in the lowground.

Thanks for showing me the song of the week social club, I wasn't aware of that. I see a couple I want to learn already

[SincereCorgi]

The thing about 'slow jams' is that they're very dependent on the local music culture. Sometimes they're full of people earnestly trying to get better who make a point to learn each other's songs and expand repertoire, and sometimes it's a bunch of weirdos including a tambourine and three old ladies with dulcimers that get snippy if you don't play everything in D.

[Misty Stanley-Jones]

How about go to both on alternate weeks? You should at least give each of them a try before you settle on one.

[allenhopkins]

Go to both the first week. See which one works better for you. No way to comparatively evaluate them from a distance. When you decide which one fits your skills and needs better, go to that one weekly.

Wouldn't hurt, though, to keep open the option of trying the other jam once in a while, to see if things change. You can hit any jam on a particularly good or bad night, and take away a lasting impression that might be contradicted the next week.

[dubblestop]

I have a question about Jam etiquette. I am a relative beginner to mandolin (two years) and have essentially no one with whom to play regularly. My two brothers play (banjo and guitar) but live in other cities. We get together 3-4 times a year. Of course I cannot play at the pace they keep (except for rhythm). Invariably, they look at me at say "take it" when they very well know I don't know the tune well enough and certainly not at the pace they play. I am the older (smarter! ) brother so I am sure they do this to make me feel inferior or to get back at me for when I caused them angst when we were you ger (and they surely succeed). Others often join our group and the intimidation titer is higher as a result.

So my question to you is:" what is the proper way to REFUSE a solo or tune "call" in a group?" I know that in other settings standing outside the circle and playing "quietly" is considered appropriate. Still there are times when I can get in on the action "inside" the circle. Maybe stepping in and out is the key. Is it fair to call a song and set the timing at a slower pace so that I can play comfortably?

Just need to know how to handle the learning curve.

[Marc Katz]

You need to talk - you can tell them ahead of time that you don't want a break on anything (and then you can speak up when you want a break). You can vigorously shake your head "no" when they say take it and then just keep playing rhythm. I don't know if your brothers are doing it to be mean or if they really don't know if you will or you won't take a break. I have a brother too so I understand that dynamic. But really, music should be a place where you can put some of that sh$% down.

Eventually you'll be able to take some kind of break on anything and if you trainwreck just chuckle about it. But until then you should be able to communicate so it isn't too much of an issue.

[LongBlackVeil]

I have a question about Jam etiquette. I am a relative beginner to mandolin (two years) and have essentially no one with whom to play regularly. My two brothers play (banjo and guitar) but live in other cities. We get together 3-4 times a year. Of course I cannot play at the pace they keep (except for rhythm). Invariably, they look at me at say "take it" when they very well know I don't know the tune well enough and certainly not at the pace they play. I am the older (smarter! ) brother so I am sure they do this to make me feel inferior or to get back at me for when I caused them angst when we were you ger (and they surely succeed). Others often join our group and the intimidation titer is higher as a result.

So my question to you is:" what is the proper way to REFUSE a solo or tune "call" in a group?" I know that in other settings standing outside the circle and playing "quietly" is considered appropriate. Still there are times when I can get in on the action "inside" the circle. Maybe stepping in and out is the key. Is it fair to call a song and set the timing at a slower pace so that I can play comfortably?

Just need to know how to handle the learning curve.

I obviously haven't been to a bluegrass jam yet hence the thread, but I suspect it's similar to other styles, it's usually an eye contact thing. You will usually have a "jam leader" so to speak, and when he wants you to take a break he will look for your eyes if he can't find them he will assume you don't want to take a solo

And in other news, just my luck, both of the jams are cancelled this week. The employees at the establishment where the jam is held are "gone fishing" lol guess I'll try to make it next week. I think I will try to go to the slow/old time jam first, I've been practicing with the old time jam machine and definitley have trouble keeping up on normal speed but on the slow speed (not that slow at all lol) I have no trouble.

[JeffD]

So my question to you is:" what is the proper way to REFUSE a solo or tune "call" in a group?".

Just shake your head and say "I got nothing."

[SincereCorgi]

Invariably, they look at me at say "take it" when they very well know I don't know the tune well enough and certainly not at the pace they play. I am the older (smarter! ) brother so I am sure they do this to make me feel inferior or to get back at me for when I caused them angst when we were you ger (and they surely succeed). Others often join our group and the intimidation titer is higher as a result.

Y'know, they might be trying to help you out. The only way to get good at taking breaks in public involves a lot of crashing and burning, and a low-key friendly jam is sort of a laboratory for that. Besides, they might be getting their 'revenge' on their older brother for a year or two, but with every horrible solo you're getting closer to being up to speed, at which point you can ruin their lives by stepping on all their breaks and putting in tags and fills on every single vocal line.

[farmerjones]

I have a question about Jam etiquette. . . .

So my question to you is:" what is the proper way to REFUSE a solo or tune "call" in a group?" I know that in other settings standing outside the circle and playing "quietly" is considered appropriate. Still there are times when I can get in on the action "inside" the circle. Maybe stepping in and out is the key. Is it fair to call a song and set the timing at a slower pace so that I can play comfortably?

Just need to know how to handle the learning curve.

I just smile and shake my head and keep playing rhythm chords. There's ten billion songs/tunes, one can't know them all. But, know what you know solid.

[JeffD]

But i really want to take a break or two and im not sure ill be able to do that at full speed. What do you guys think

Go to the fast jam and just play every other note of the break you come up with.

[John Ritchhart]

I think Jeff D's answer above is correct when jamming with strangers. But with my own brothers? Gimme a break. How about "bite me". That's what I use with mine.

[TonyP]

All the jams I've been to are very dependent on who shows up that week. There's usually a hard core that shows up every week, some good, some still learning. Then there's others that show up off and on. So one week the jam will be great, another so so, another "why bother?" So it usually takes a while to get a feel for who's comin' and goin'. And I find this true for all jams fast or slow.

What I and others I know have done is find a few in the crowd I click with and in your case see if they are closer to where you live and get something going outside of the jam. In my case just finding a like minded guitar player has fulfilled all my needs as I don't really care for big jams. I'm still playing with one that I met at a jam after almost 25yrs!

Jam etiquette is another thing that's really dependent. I like where it goes around the circle with the next person calling the song/tune. Then the breaks go around the circle same way. Or the one who's calling the song/tune "directing traffic" by calling on certain people. And eye contact and paying attention to what's happening is key. If the person waves me off for a break, that's fine. But if they never look up again, I figure they don't want any breaks. That's fine too, but without eye contact you never know if it's just the one time or not.

[dubblestop]

Good advice from all. I especially like John R's comment...."bite me"! Gonna see the two brothers this weekend. Can't wait to try that out on them!

I do think they are trying to let me play (if I can) but I remain intimidated especially if wea re playing with others and I don't know the tune. Still working hard to make it happen. Thanks again for the advice...especially the ones that made me laugh!

[MSalisbury]

I realize your question is about how to refuse a break, but let me put this out there - if you START the song, YOU get to set the pace. When I first started joining Jams I learned that if I volunteered to start the song, they were gonna play it MY speed. Of course you get the occasional "pro" who will only play at warp-speed ("We don't play it that slow around here"), but screw them.

As to your original question, and specifically when playing with your Bros, don't refuse to take a break! If you can chop the chords at their speed, then you have a break already - just take a "Place-holder Break" and play the chords louder! Throw a little tremolo in on a few bars and you're good to go. Who says you have to play the melody with the fancy fingering at a speed faster than you can handle for it to count as a break? As long as you keep the tempo and end on the right chord, anything you play falls into the "I meant it to sound like that" category. Go for it!