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Thread: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

  1. #26
    Site founder Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Wow, appears AOL has joined the policy.

    http://blog.mailchimp.com/aol-changes-dmarc-policy/

    May be a good thing I've been looking into add-on software that runs a Classifieds as part of the forum.

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  3. #27
    Site founder Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Afraid this will be missed but I've edited the opening post. AOL joined Yahoo in this as well.

  4. #28

    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron View Post
    Maybe you got lucky ?
    I think I will just get another email,address and be done with it, seems like the cafe administrators are on top of this one.
    I'm quite sure the owner and administrators of this site are "on top of this one" too.
    A question was asked by 'Ignatius' re att.net addresses supported by Yahoo. I replied to that particular question.
    I don't pretend to have even the most remote understanding of the technology involved here. I can only say that my message went through. I doubt that luck has much to do with it. It is possible I suppose, that Yahoo's recent changes have inadvertantly overlooked 'att.net' addresses.

    In any case, the moment I am inconvenienced by a reduction in the quality/service of my email provider, be assured that I will "jump ship" too.

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  6. #29
    Registered User Jim Adwell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Yahoo's (and now AOL) action here will either provide a motivation for mailing list applications to update their software to implement DMARC (preferred) or cause mailing list admins to run around like headless chickens proclaiming the end of the world as we know is nigh (more likely). Or maybe admins will implement one of the workarounds available and life will continue somewhat more calmly.

    On the other hand, Yahoo's mail service sucks anyway, so...

  7. #30
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    If you want to know if your e-mail provider is doing the same thing as Yahoo and AOL go to this site and enter your e-mail domain (like yahoo.com or gmail.com). If the "p" setting comes back as "reject" your e-mail won't currently work on the cafe classifieds. If "p" comes back as "none" or if there is no record you should be able to function correctly.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  8. #31
    Registered User Ignatius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Thanks, Flatrock, for checking. I also used the site Mike Edgerton noted above, and both ameritech.net and att.net come back as lacking any DMARC record. This means that some Yahoo-based email does in fact work since Yahoo provides all AT&T email support for both of these domains. Maybe Yahoo is only implementing it for specifically Yahoo.com email addresses? Or perhaps Yahoo is rolling it out one domain at a time?

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  10. #32
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    If there is no dmarc record it should work no matter who hosts it. That record is associated with the domain.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  12. #33

    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    The solution is simple and the same for everyone - change the way mandolin cafe works so the from address in emails from the classifieds is from mandolincafe.com and doesn't spoof the user's email address. The original sender's email address can simply be placed in the replyto field, and everything will work as expected.

    Like it or not, most likely all the big providers will be doing the same thing as yahoo by the year's end, so suggesting that users change their email provider is just postponing the inevitable.
    Last edited by OldSausage; May-19-2014 at 11:56pm.

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  14. #34
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    The solution is simple and the same for everyone - change the way mandolin cafe works so the from address in emails from the classifieds is from mandolincafe.com and doesn't spoof the user's email address. The original sender's email address can simply be placed in the replyto field, and everything will work as expected.

    Like it or not, most likely all the big providers will be doing the same thing as yahoo by the year's end, so suggesting that users change their email provider is just postponing the inevitable.
    See post #21 for a different take the other major email service providers.

    But I was also wondering it there would be a way to just sent the potential buyer the seller's email address and message via a different server -- the problem might be that this would be an unacceptable work burden on the MC because instead of just forwarding the message and address would have to be copied over to a the MC's email provider?

    Or maybe the system would have to change to merely providing the seller with the address of the potential buyer? Less security that way though?

    Anyway I already change my email address!
    Bernie
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  15. #35
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    So Sausage, you are saying stay put and wait for all the fallout,then duck and cover?
    I'm so confused!
    I know I will eventually figure it out but, I will probably have to run a few laps getting it more messed up before I get it right.
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  16. #36
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    The solution is simple and the same for everyone - change the way mandolin cafe works so the from address in emails from the classifieds is from mandolincafe.com and doesn't spoof the user's email address. The original sender's email address can simply be placed in the replyto field, and everything will work as expected.

    Like it or not, most likely all the big providers will be doing the same thing as yahoo by the year's end, so suggesting that users change their email provider is just postponing the inevitable.
    I guess anything is possible but AOL and Yahoo don't really drive the industry. I'll be surprised if the major players follow. If they do fine, but I think if Google was on board they would have already been there. You're talking two of the weakest tech giants out there.

    Your solution by the way would probably cause cause a whole lot of people to never get answers. People tend to reply to emails even if it says no reply in the message. Even if you bounce them back half the time they don't understand what they have. That's real world.

    There are other ways to do it.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  17. #37
    Registered User Jim Adwell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Gmail and Google Apps both support DMARC, and allow the user to use one of the workarounds for sending email from a different domain than specified by the email address. Some mailing list software can also be made to work.

    DMARC will be widely adopted eventually, it's almost certainly inevitable. Yahoo's actions might make it happen faster.

  18. #38
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Adwell View Post
    Gmail and Google Apps both support DMARC, and allow the user to use one of the workarounds for sending email from a different domain than specified by the email address. Some mailing list software can also be made to work.

    DMARC will be widely adopted eventually, it's almost certainly inevitable. Yahoo's actions might make it happen faster.
    The difference is how they use demarc. Check GMails setting. It's easy to simply reject the process, it takes some sense to not break an entire part of the web experience. Yahoo and AOL are really taking the simple approach don't you think? Apparently Google hasn't adopted that policy and I seriously doubt they will.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  19. #39
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    The original sender's email address can simply be placed in the replyto field, and everything will work as expected.
    This appears to behave differently depending on the capabilities of the mail client in use. So far so good testing with gmail and a few others, but it's early to say this will be a one-size-fits-all solution.

    We may need to do something more drastic- requiring a message board login to use the classifieds, or hosting the messages on the cafe servers..
    The Mandolin Archive
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  20. #40

    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by danb View Post
    This appears to behave differently depending on the capabilities of the mail client in use. So far so good testing with gmail and a few others, but it's early to say this will be a one-size-fits-all solution.

    We may need to do something more drastic- requiring a message board login to use the classifieds, or hosting the messages on the cafe servers..
    I've never met an email client that doesn't respect the "reply-to" field. As long as the "from" field makes it clear that you don't send mail to it (and you can throw anything that doesn't abide by that) such as "DONOTREPLY@mandolincafe.com". There is another option of setting the from address to user@domain.com.INVALID, but I'm not sure how widely supported that is. Details are on the DMARC wikipedia page:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMARC

    And here's John Levine's article:

    http://www.spamresource.com/2014/04/...es-how-to.html

    And for those above asking if they should change their provider, no I would absolutely advise anyone not to throw away their email account because of this. If you need to use classifieds right now, then just get a temporary gmail account for the purpose.

    Also, see MailChimp's article about the recent changes. If anyone should be up in arms about these policies it should be them, but notice how they actually support it, because they understand the need for it and the benefits.

    http://blog.mailchimp.com/yahoo-chan...eliverability/

    Here's Yahoo's "What Should Senders Do" article:

    http://yahoomail.tumblr.com/post/824...uld-senders-do
    Last edited by OldSausage; May-20-2014 at 1:19pm.

  21. #41
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    It gets better. Mail set to autoforward from our Exchange server is disappearing when sent to Yahoo or AOL but amazingly enough goes through to GMail. It's not being spoofed. If I send directly to the Yahoo account it goes through. This is getting better.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  22. #42
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Well this has nothing to do with Yahoo. I tried to send a response to someone in Spain on the classifieds and I could not send using the send button. I have an independent email server based in Australia. The classifieds worked me a month ago thank goodness.
    Nic Gellie

  23. #43

    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    It took me about 6 repeat clicks to reply to an ad on another classified site (kijiji, owned by eBay) using my Yahoo acct. before I got a successful send. Kept getting a warning dialogue telling me "the reply could not be sent at this time".

    No problem using gmail.

  24. #44
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    After some experimentation we seem to have the right order of mail headers to spoof a Reply-To for aol/yahoo.com users. That means you'll see the cafe as the sender and replies sent by yahoo.com and aol.com email inboxes should reach sellers again for now.

    Not certain quite yet how it will play out with other providers. Email really needs a protocol upgrade, but boy.. talk about legacy code.

    Honestly I don't think this is any kind of proper step forward in combatting spam. It looks like Yahoo had a problem with hacked accounts and spam originating from sender email addresses- so they are keen to reduce the appearance that Yahoo is spamming.

    Spam is big money business- senders are quite aggressive and clever at finding new ways to bypass filters or protections. There will always be grey area when you need to make a rule for dealing with a first contact from a new sender. All this really serves to do is lessen the appearance that Yahoo or Aol is sending spam. They weren't in the first place.. this is to improve their images.

    If you've never received email from person@somedomainyouveneverheardof.com before, what do you do? Defaulting it to spam causes headaches when it's legit. Accepting it causes headaches when it's spam. That grey area is not going to change.

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  25. #45

    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by danb View Post
    All this really serves to do is lessen the appearance that Yahoo or Aol is sending spam. They weren't in the first place.. this is to improve their images.
    This is not entirely true. Because now no-one is able to send a spam email where the real FROM address is any of the users on Yahoo (at the lowest estimate, millions of people). That means that not only does yahoo.com no longer appear to be sending spam, none of yahoo.com's users appear to be sending spam either. So it really does protect the users and not just the corporation.

    No-one, not even Yahoo, is pretending this is a solution for spam. But I do think it's at least a step in the right direction with the tools available now.

  26. #46
    somnamandolist Killian King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    I never understood why anyone continued to use Yahoo or AOL mail anyway, once Hotmail and then Gmail became available.

    I have a Yahoo account that I use exclusively to register with entities that I don't really want to register with, but have to in order to access some content temporarily. It's my spam collection account.

  27. #47

    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    I personally wouldn't use any of them. gmail is the most sophisticated; hotmail is probably the worst of the lot. Knew someone who worked at hotmail and they said to run away from it. It may be the worst run department at Microsoft: security is very bad. gmail is getting very aggressive and draconian in its own right. The fact is … if you use a free email account, you may end up paying more than you bargained for.

    I'd look at finding a a local internet service provider that has a decent reputation and pay for email. Service us somewhere around $4 to $5 a month. Here in Portland, I'm a big fan of spiritone.com (email) and canvashost.com (isp/domain hosting) The latter organization runs on wind power. Both organizations have people who actually answer the phone.

    With larger companies like Verizon, google, Comcast, AT&T possibly handing over user information to whomever … I prefer to do business with folks in my neighborhood when possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killian King View Post
    I never understood why anyone continued to use Yahoo or AOL mail anyway, once Hotmail and then Gmail became available.

    I have a Yahoo account that I use exclusively to register with entities that I don't really want to register with, but have to in order to access some content temporarily. It's my spam collection account.
    Just visiting.

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