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Thread: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

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    Site owner Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    Default Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    UPDATE 5/20/14 at 1:00 p.m.: this issue has now been resolved. Yahoo and AOL addresses are now functioning properly on the Classifieds. While those email providers will work on the Classifieds we cannot vouch for them working elsewhere on the web.

    Using Yahoo as your mail provider? Time to jump ship.

    EDIT: May 19. AOL has joined this policy as well.

    I'm reading information for the first time this a.m. that if you're on a forum--any internet forum that sends mail; you're using our Classifieds or about any Classifieds; if you're on a listserv that sends you mail--any listserv, Yahoo will reject and kill the email sent if it did not pass through a Yahoo server.

    You read that right.

    We had a couple of complaints from Yahoo users that Classifieds replies were not getting through. Tested and found this new policy I'm going to link to. It's draconian and that's being kind.

    I'm hoping Dan and moderator Mike Edgerton who works with mail servers will weigh in.

    Sorry to post this in the General section but we'll need to get this message out best we can. Think about this. Applies to just about anyone. Implications here impact tens of millions of internet resources best I can tell.

    Yahoo DMARC policy
    Yahoo email anti-spoofing policy breaks mailing lists

    In other words, no one else may use your Yahoo address to send on your behalf which millions of internet resources are designed in this fashion. If you wish to reply to a Classified ad and you have a Yahoo address, same applies. Implications here are massive and impact everyone. We may find there are work-arounds for this but I'm not seeing them. Having trouble wrapping my brain around this.

    Just so I'm clear, this is not just a Cafe problem. This is a problem for any internet site/service sending mail to a Yahoo subscriber on your behalf to another individual that doesn't first go through a Yahoo server.

    EDIT: Google "new yahoo DMARC policy" and you'll get a wide range of articles returned with headlines like "Yahoo's New DMARC Policy Destroys Every Mailing List across the World." Seemingly not much to discuss here.
    Last edited by Scott Tichenor; May-20-2014 at 2:00pm.

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Yes, this is pretty heavy-handed. I think Yahoo is trying to shift the impression that spam originates from their servers. Truth is, it doesn't really- but you can pretend to send mail as someone else. It's annoying when it's spam, but it stops us being able to say a classifieds email has a reply-to address of anything @yahoo.com.

    What that means.. is no mails can be sent with a reply-to address of @yahoo.com through a third party.. forums, listserves, classified ads.. anything. I suspect that will annoy Yahoo's users more than it will help them rebuilt their brand as "not a spammer"

    Note
    When you post a classified ad at the cafe, WE aim to protect you from spam by not allowing "unknown senders" to reply to you. That's why it doesn't just go directly through email or expose your real email address inside the ad itself. That stops people from making up reply-to address to bombard you with mail just because you have a classified ad. Not having the email address to reply to appear in the ad protects senders from being added to a million spam lists at the same time- it's quite common for spammers to search pages to harvest email addresses to bombard with their advertising.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Scott, *thanks* for posting this in the General section. The info is important.
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    Site owner Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    For those of you on Yahoo that wish to change your email to a different service provider you can do so here. I believe that will place your account in temporary status where you can't post until I approve it (this is in place so people can't assign their accounts to addresses that have been banned). Alternately, PM me with your new email address if you wish to bypass that and have me activate it sooner.

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    I hesitate to even voice an opinion regarding Yahoo mail and Yahoo in general but here goes. Several times in the last few years I have blocked access for my users to all of Yahoo's sites and at times blocked all incoming Yahoo mail. Between a lack of common sense on what Yahoo pushes down to a users computer and their apparent lack of paying any attention to abuse of their mail systems, they have not been good stewards of the trust placed in them by their users. It is possible to weed out spam e-mail. I block 11 million messages a year. Simply buying existing technology could get them there. While I realize they are fighting an uphill battle they could simply hire some folks that know what they are doing to administer their systems. If you don't want the reputation of being a major source of spam e-mail then just take the steps that everyone else has taken.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Hi Scott, I recently had to deal with this for my own website, where I send out email reminders on a daily basis.
    If you like, feel free to contact me and I can talk to you about what I did for my site.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    I knew something was up… I had not heard back from the last dozen or so people I contacted through the classifieds on my yahoo account. Missed out on some stuff I wanted...

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Does anyone know whether this policy also affects Yahoo-supported email services like att.net? This could be a real mess for many people who don't even know that Yahoo is part of the email service provided by their phone or cable package.

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    <Off topic, not relevant to the opening post, hot button issue, violates forum posting guidelines. Please keep on topic>
    Last edited by Scott Tichenor; May-18-2014 at 5:35pm. Reason: keep it on topic. fact is Yahoo email use is and will now continue to be a long-term problem for it's users.
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    vintagemandolin.com Charles Johnson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    This is not surprising. Yahoo was the preferred email for online scammers and has been for some time. No real ID was needed to open an email account.

    On the plus side, it is relatively easy to see the email headers in Yahoo to determine if the message was legit. Not as easy in Gmail.

    Sounds like Yahoo has decided on a nuclear option instead of hiring people who can fix the problem.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    We had that problem with a hosting client who wanted mail fwded to both mail accounts on Yahoo and on AOL. Similar problems: both were bounced. This started more or less when heartbleed was discovered.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by danb View Post
    Yes, this is pretty heavy-handed. I think Yahoo is trying to shift the impression that spam originates from their servers. Truth is, it doesn't really- but you can pretend to send mail as someone else. It's annoying when it's spam, but it stops us being able to say a classifieds email has a reply-to address of anything @yahoo.com.

    What that means.. is no mails can be sent with a reply-to address of @yahoo.com through a third party.. forums, listserves, classified ads.. anything. I suspect that will annoy Yahoo's users more than it will help them rebuilt their brand as "not a spammer"

    Note
    When you post a classified ad at the cafe, WE aim to protect you from spam by not allowing "unknown senders" to reply to you. That's why it doesn't just go directly through email or expose your real email address inside the ad itself. That stops people from making up reply-to address to bombard you with mail just because you have a classified ad. Not having the email address to reply to appear in the ad protects senders from being added to a million spam lists at the same time- it's quite common for spammers to search pages to harvest email addresses to bombard with their advertising.
    Just to understand how this works. So if a an MC member with an address of someone@yahoo.com clicks on the "reply to ad" button on a MC Classified ad -- MC cannot forward that member's expression of interest along to the seller: 1) with this new rule (the MC be violating Yahoo policy), or 2) because there is some kind of filter that blocks you from informing the seller that somebody@yahoo.com asked such-and-such about your ad? Just wondering how it works physically?
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    Just to understand how this works. So if someone@yahoo.com clicks on the "reply to ad" button on a MC Classified ad -- MC cannot forward someone's request on to the seller because: 1)because of this new rule (the MC be violating Yahoo policy), or2) because there is some kind of filter that blocks you from informing the seller that somebody@yahoo.com asked such-and-such about your ad? Just wondering how it works physically?
    Pretty much option 2. The mail just isn't going to pass.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by holden View Post
    I knew something was up… I had not heard back from the last dozen or so people I contacted through the classifieds on my yahoo account. Missed out on some stuff I wanted...
    Me too -- I also expected something was up -- replies all of a sudden stopped.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Pretty much option 2. The mail just isn't going to pass.
    Thanks. Oddly enough with all its problems my main complaint about Yahoo as an email service provider is that somehow they allowed my account to be hijacked twice. As to spam --not really a problem for me -- for the most part Yahoo filters would catch 5 - 10 spam emails per day and I would guess only about one or two a month got through and they were pretty obvious.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    So... If we posted an ad recently on MC and used a yahoo account, we should probably try again with a different account?

    I was very surprised that I got NO replies... this would explain it

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    Oddly enough with all its problems my main complaint about Yahoo as an email service provider is that somehow they allowed my account to be hijacked twice
    I'm not shocked.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    Just to understand how this works. So if a an MC member with an address of someone@yahoo.com clicks on the "reply to ad" button on a MC Classified ad -- MC cannot forward that member's expression of interest along to the seller: 1) with this new rule (the MC be violating Yahoo policy), or 2) because there is some kind of filter that blocks you from informing the seller that somebody@yahoo.com asked such-and-such about your ad? Just wondering how it works physically?
    Yahoo has changed the rules of *their* service. We have changed nothing. This has virtually and absolutely nothing to do with with what we do. Yahoo has decided we (and everyone else working similarly on the global internet) cannot inform people who have placed ads on our site that people with Yahoo email addresses are able to send inquires about an ad because it comes from our server. As already stated, if the email was not sent via their server it will NOT be delivered. It will be blocked due to technical issues described in the links at the top of this page.

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    Site owner Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    I understand that people are having trouble understanding this. Fact: if you use Yahoo for all of your email services, prepare to hear silence using it for inquiries and notifications on the internet. It simply no longer works as intended. The rules of what you've expected have been significantly altered to please their business model, not yours.
    Last edited by Scott Tichenor; May-19-2014 at 8:03am.

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Tichenor View Post
    Yahoo has changed the rules of *their* service. We have changed nothing. This has virtually and absolutely nothing to do with with what we do. Yahoo has decided we (and everyone else working similarly on the global internet) cannot inform people who have placed ads on our site that people with Yahoo email addresses are able to send inquires about an ad because it comes from our server. As already stated, if the email was not sent via their server it will NOT be delivered. It will be blocked due to technical issues described in the links at the top of this page.
    I was aware that the issue is not due to a Mandolin Cafe policy change my question was related to whether it was just a rule change (forcing you and others in the same position not to forward) or an actual protocol change that rejects the forwarded email. I found a website dedicated to explaining DMARC = Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance and the way the system works is more or less laid out there. I can see now it is clearly the latter.

    As you noted all DMARC compliant servers will now not be able to "forward" (not sure that is the right word) emails with @yahoo.com.

    If Yahoo can make this policy stick i.e., the users do not complain to the point of making them reconsider, how long is it until the other free email service providers do the same thing?

    Perhaps also regular emails with @yahoo.com may also get hung up when an non-yahoo server (e.g., note to a personal friend) tries to forward your email on to someone else (e.g., a mutual acquaintance)?

    IMO, this would make Yahoo email service essentially worthless?
    Bernie
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    If Yahoo can make this policy stick i.e., the users do not complain to the point of making them reconsider, how long is it until the other free email service providers do the same thing?...

    IMO, this would make Yahoo email service essentially worthless?
    Let me answer that. Probably never. Google and Microsoft have pretty much attacked the spam problem internally and they control it well. Yahoo on the other hand has had their head in the sand so long that this is probably the best they can do. I assume they hope that their users will leave thus freeing them from the job of hosting that mail. This is of course my opinion.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignatius View Post
    Does anyone know whether this policy also affects Yahoo-supported email services like att.net? This could be a real mess for many people who don't even know that Yahoo is part of the email service provided by their phone or cable package.
    For what it's worth, I just ran a 'test' message/reply to a Cafe Classified ad. I am using Yahoo mail with an 'att.net' address.
    The message did go through.

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post
    For what it's worth, I just ran a 'test' message/reply to a Cafe Classified ad. I am using Yahoo mail with an 'att.net' address.
    The message did go through.
    Maybe you got lucky ?
    I think I will just get another email,address and be done with it, seems like the cafe administrators are on top of this one.
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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    OK. Here's the big question. And I know as diverse as the opinions of what mando to get, there will be a lot of answers. What are the best e-mail options we should change to? I'm on a PC, not a Mac.

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    Default Re: Big trouble for users of Yahoo mail - READ

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Riley View Post
    OK. Here's the big question. And I know as diverse as the opinions of what mando to get, there will be a lot of answers. What are the best e-mail options we should change to? I'm on a PC, not a Mac.
    Let's make this into a separate discussion, please. The Forum support area would be a good place for it. I'd like to keep the focus sharp here vs. getting it filled with recommendations. Part of me thinks this is like asking what's the best mandolin. You'll likely get as many answers as there are providers.

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