Partly finished quality F5 value.

[TerryOz]

Hi all! First post and I look forward to your thoughts. I would like to know your thoughts on the value, as in how much it is worth of a partly built, quality F5 style Mandolin.
It is up to a stage where it needs the following. Glue Neck into place, bind the back, apply a finish, glue fretboard in place, setup etc.
The timbers are best quality, highly Flamed Rock Maple Body and Neck, Red Spruce Top and Ebony Board. The build so far is first rate and I have to work out whether I take on the rest myself, hand rub a varnish finish etc or have a pro do it.
The Mandolin would normally be in the $6000 price range, had it been completed. So my question is, how much should I offer the maker for what he has done so far?
Thanks in anticipation...

[Marty Jacobson]

It's worth whatever you want to pay for it as a fun project. Don't think of it as an investment.

[testore]

That's very difficult to calculate. I think finish work is easily a third of the time value of an instrument build. Binding takes a long time too. Set up and detail work is painfully time consuming. Sounds like it's about half done. Is there hardware? Then in this situation I certainly wouldn't calculate backwards from a $6K mark. The sales figure has a calculated profit for a completed instrument, which this is not. I'd calculated up from zero to what would have been a wholesale value of labor minus profit.

[Mark Marino]

You can get a kit built up to about that point from Siminoff for under $1000... and know exactly what you are getting as far as neck fit, etc.. full prints and instruction to finish it. Not knowing where your find is coming from, how popular the builder, etc... I wouldn't pay more than $700 for it.

[Jim Garber]

I guess the other question is why the builder did not complete it him (or her) self. Assuming the maker is still alive why would he abandon this one -- there must be a reason. He would have the best resources and knowledge to finish the project himself, I would think.

[sunburst]

I'm thinking "time and materials". In other words, it's worth the cost of the materials and the builders shop rate X number of hours spent to get it to where it is now.
The finished value will have nothing to do with the $6000 potential value because it is only worth that amount if the builder who started it finishes it. In other words, the name on the peghead has so much to do with mandolin value that it is no guide to value at this stage. Depending on what happens to it from here, and what name it ends up bearing, the finished value could be nearly anything. Every builder, from a hobby builder starting his/her first instrument to a top pro builder, has access to excellent materials, so high quality materials can be found in mandolins worth less than $1000 just as easily as they can be found in $20,000 mandolins.
So... perhaps calculate a value for the materials and an estimate of the time the builder has in it, multiply the hours by $60 or so (the low side of typical shop time for luthiers) and make that the basis for an offer.

[Frank Ford]

My experience is that such partially finished instruments typically have extremely low potential resale value. In fact, most are given away when a luthier quits the business and sells off tools, etc.

There are exceptions, such as those in progress when a celebrated maker dies.

[Bernie Daniel]

In order for anyone to know what you are selling or contemplating selling I suggest that you post some pictures of the project. You would get better or more informed answers if you did so I think.

As to $6000 as the finished price or value? Not possible I think?

I know many absolutely excellent builders who also have years of experience and use on the very best woods and the highest standard of construction who are selling their F-style mandolins in the $2,800 - $3500 range.

It is nearly impossible to imagine that your mandolin when completed will be even remotely close to $6000 unless you have a very big name luthier with an national/international reputation doing the work.

If the mandolin is being built by a relatively inexperienced or unknown craftsperson I doubt it would be worth more than $1000 - 1,500 upon completion.

Unfinished it is worth what someone will give you for it which probably (and unfortunately) is not much at all -- you would almost have to sell it for kit prices? Maybe $400 - 600 -- IF you could find a buyer.

Why not let the builder finish it? If the builder is backing out of a project uncompleted, I'd ask for my money back and walk. If that is what is happening?

[Bill Snyder]

Bernie he is wanting to know how much he should offer the builder for the unfinished mandolin.

[Michael Lewis]

An unfinished instrument is an unknown quantity. You can't know what it will sound like, plus the binding and finish etc. are yet to be done. Therein lies a serious fly in the ointment, as YOU will have to install the binding and do the finish, and how good a job will you do? It takes a lot of experience to do a nice job of binding an F model, and finishing is another discipline altogether, and these aspects will either make or break the perceived quality of the instrument. Every step in construction and finish either adds or subtracts from the goodness and value of the instrument.

Both Stewart MacDonald and Roger Siminoff offer very good quality kits for between $500 and $600 that you can make a world class instrument from, IF you have the skill to complete the process and finish.

[Bernie Daniel]

Bernie he is wanting to know how much he should offer the builder for the unfinished mandolin.

Well I had not actually thought of that because it sounds like a scratch build? I might actually have to build something! LOL.

I originally thought to OP was the builder but on re-reading I'm not so sure.

But, I still think a pic would be nice just to see what the subject of the thread looks like.

[Pete Jenner]

I agree. A pic would be great.

[fscotte]

Bernie he is wanting to know how much he should offer the builder for the unfinished mandolin.

I'm guessing he scratch built it, and doesn't have the time and/or desire to finish it.

[Jim Garber]

It would certainly be good if the OP came back and addressed our questions. We can sit here forever and guess what the situation is.

It is hard to tell if this is a known maker or not of just a part-timer who, for some reason has stopped in the middle of finishing this. I assume that the maker has some sort of track record and that $6K price is what he normally gets.

The Mandolin would normally be in the $6000 price range, had it been completed. So my question is, how much should I offer the maker for what he has done so far?

[Bernie Daniel]

.....The timbers are best quality, highly Flamed Rock Maple Body and Neck, Red Spruce Top and Ebony Board. The build so far is first rate and I have to work out whether I take on the rest myself, hand rub a varnish finish etc or have a pro do it.
The Mandolin would normally be in the $6000 price range, had it been completed. So my question is, how much should I offer the maker for what he has done so far?
Thanks in anticipation...

The part in bold (I added it) is what confuses me. Clearly the OP is the "I" and then there is a someone else known as "the maker".

So my take is this was a commissioned build that stopped before completion -- for some reason... now the OP is offering to pay the builder for the partially completed mandolin "as is"?

But until we hear or see more this conversation has little to support much more speculation it I guess. ---- not that such has ever stopped us before. LOL.

[Jim Garber]

Ah, yes, Bernie. You are absolutely right. We really don't need the OP to come back at all. I think that you are on to something. The OP commissioned this mandolin from The Maker (I prefer to capitalize this) and The Maker took way too long -- a decade or two maybe? -- to complete this. But the OP still wants this mandolin. Tune in tomorrow for the exciting finale to Mandolin Maker.

[Bernie Daniel]

Ah, yes, Bernie. You are absolutely right. We really don't need the OP to come back at all. I think that you are on to something. The OP commissioned this mandolin from The Maker (I prefer to capitalize this) and The Maker took way too long -- a decade or two maybe? -- to complete this. But the OP still wants this mandolin. Tune in tomorrow for the exciting finale to Mandolin Maker.

Well now I think you are on to something! I can see it now a weekly TV sit com starring an up'n coming young BG picker who can't get his to-die-for mandolin released from THE GREAT MAKER. We never see the MAKER entirely just glimpses of his back working at his band saw or with his dust mask on or something -- a series like that would probably go on for years and years...........

[TerryOz]

Sorry Guys. Didn't realise that the thread had "grown" until just now. To clear things up a bit, I am trying to ascertain the value of an F5 that was being built in a batch, that were not completed as the maker is deceased. I am interested in trying to complete one that I would like to choose from the batch. His Mandolins have sold here for as much as $6500 Australian. I don't expect to do this to sell it, but if I did, I'd expect to get a lot less than that amount. I did have one of these before and sold it used in good shape for $4500.
As an alternative I guess I'd like to know more about who you might be talking about here Bernie?
I know many absolutely excellent builders who also have years of experience and use on the very best woods and the highest standard of construction who are selling their F-style mandolins in the $2,800 - $3500 range.
I guess the bottom line is that I am wanting to get a great Traditional Loar F5 Style Mandolin, with great Tonewoods, Build, Volume and Tone!
I will post some pics when i have some
Thanks all!

[sunburst]

Sounds like you'd be essentially getting a kit. From what I gather reading here, mandolin kits can be had in various stages of completion from more than one supplier, seems to me that a fair price would be very similar to a high quality kit in a similar stage of completion. The completed instruments would be about the same too.

[Bernie Daniel]

Sorry Guys. Didn't realise that the thread had "grown" until just now. To clear things up a bit, I am trying to ascertain the value of an F5 that was being built in a batch, that were not completed as the maker is deceased. I am interested in trying to complete one that I would like to choose from the batch. His Mandolins have sold here for as much as $6500 Australian. I don't expect to do this to sell it, but if I did, I'd expect to get a lot less than that amount. I did have one of these before and sold it used in good shape for $4500.
As an alternative I guess I'd like to know more about who you might be talking about here Bernie?
I know many absolutely excellent builders who also have years of experience and use on the very best woods and the highest standard of construction who are selling their F-style mandolins in the $2,800 - $3500 range.
I guess the bottom line is that I am wanting to get a great Traditional Loar F5 Style Mandolin, with great Tonewoods, Build, Volume and Tone!
I will post some pics when i have some
Thanks all!

Hi Terry,

You know I was wondering if it was a case of a deceased luthier - one of the many possibilities anyway I thought.

Regarding your question, I would guess there are easily over 100 luthiers here in USA that fall in that category -- i.e., been building really nice F-5's Loar copies (their version) including some with many years experience out of first class solid red spruce and hard maple often including varnish finish and selling them for less than $3000. And make no mistake these are good mandolins. But it is very competitive -- I could name three within 50 miles of my house. There is also one luthier here town who gets several times the much for his mandolins.

Guess you are in Australia. I have less knowledge of luthiers there but are many Australian builders on the forum and will chime in I am sure. Also there is a section on this web site (Builders) that lists many luthiers --worldwide that build mandolins.

Clearly you have some luthiers there who can get many thousands for their mandolin so there should be no problem finding help with you quest?

IMO your best bet might be to make a deal for the partially completed mandolin that you want and then try to find a luthier who will complete it for you.

Good luck and welcome to the Mandolin Cafe!

[Bill Snyder]

Even if it were someone like Peter Coombe (who is very much alive as far as I know) I would not offer more than $500 USD (about 540 Ausie). It is not so much a mandolin as it is a kit. It will not be built by the deceased luthier just started by him. There is no one to stand behind the product if something goes wrong. There is no guarantee of a good finished product with any kit but at least with the better mandolin kits (Siminoff and Stewart McDonald) there is someone/some company to stand behind the products components to some degree.

[Frank Ford]

Terry -

A few observations and opinions for your consideration:

IF you've always wanted to MAKE a fine F-style mandolin, then you might be on to something. That is, if you have sophisticated woodworking skills and want a big fat project, go for it!

If, on the other hand, you want such a mandolin and hope to save a bunch of cash by doing it yourself, then RUN AWAY. Buy the finished instrument of your desire, and skip the trials of building it yourself. Likewise, buying the "kit" and having paying for competent professional help will nickel-and-dime you into an early grave. . .

[peter.coombe]

Even if it were someone like Peter Coombe (who is very much alive as far as I know)

I can assure you I am still very much alive and still making mandolins.

[Pete Jenner]

I can assure you I am still very much alive and still making mandolins.

I can confirm that.

[TerryOz]

IF you've always wanted to MAKE a fine F-style mandolin, then you might be on to something. That is, if you have sophisticated woodworking skills and want a big fat project, go for it!
.

My Woodwork and Instrument Repair skills are pretty good , although more cabinet making, than instrument making, so the finer detail and finishing differential might challenge. But no I have never really wanted to make a fine F Style Mandolin, nor am I looking for a big fat project, it's more of a case of maybe I might try and finish one of these Mando's.