Mandocello setup

[Adam Sweet]

I bought a new mandocello off ebay and would like some setup advice:

1. what are the best strings for a mandocello and why?

2. should I replace the bridge (it doesn't appear to be ebony)?

3. the tailpiece is cheap. can I put a replacement on there? do you have a recommendation?

4. the neck appears to be straight, no warping <phew!> what kinds of things should I look out for in the future? it appears to have a truss rod

INSTRUMENT:



BRIDGE:


NECK:

[Jim Garber]

1. What is the scale length of this MC? I would prob try a set of D'Addarios to start assuming it is close to the std Gibson scale of 24" or so. Otherwise you may want to do a custom set and gauge it lighter. My main fear would be what this thing would look like in a month or so of constant tension. Others with more technical knowledge might be able to spec out a set of gauges that would not stress out the instrument.

2. The main contact looks like bone. Unless it does not intonate properly or it sounds terrible, I would leave it. Your luthier may be the best one to recommend to you.

3. My experience with these was one from another Vietnam maker. Does the TP have pegs on it or hooks? The one that was on the mandolin I had looked like it had welded or soldered metal pegs and one broke off. There was not way to replace or repair it. It was not well made anyway and was overly large. I know you don't want to spend much money on this so see if it will work for now.

4. I wonder what the truss rod is like and whether it actually was installed correctly. BTW how wide is that neck. It almost looks like a guitar width. I would keep an eye on the frets over time. I think esp if an instrument changes environments that often the frets shift and you get that annoying condition when the fret ends stick out over the edge of the fretboard. Of course. that is easily remedied.

Good luck on this one, Adam. I hope it holds together. I played a mandola by one of these makers last year but that one was prob made a few years ago. I won't say much about it but I hope that these makers have gotten their act more together since then.

[Jim Garber]

BTW you might also check out Carvalho in Portugal for other possible mandocelli or mandoli (plural of mandola?). They make a mandocello (called bandoloncello).

I am not sure of the specs or the cost but PeterK has a mandolin from them and he likes. it and describes it here.

[Martin Jonas]

Interesting, but somewhat fraught with uncertainty. I see these mandocellos sell for $450, plus $150 shipping. Did you pay import duties on top of that? If so, the total is likely to be not much less than what I recently paid for my Suzuki mandocello, which I suspect is a superior instrument especially in the context of a mandolin orchestra.

I see that the same sellers also have a bowlback mandocello, at more or less the same price: Link.

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

Adam,

I see that the same seller who sells these mandocellos ("taisamlu") also sells Optima mandocello strings (Link). Looking at the fabric windings on the strings on your mandocello, I suspect that these are actually Optima strings. If so, they should be pretty high quality. Optima is a very respectable German string brand, with a good reputation for classical strings. I haven't tried their mandocello strings, but I'm using their bronze mandolin strings on my Embergher.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

That bowlback MC looks a lot classier than the F-model tho it is hard to tell what the quality is. I thought I recalled someone who was going to order a bowlback mandolin from this vendor -- I have never played one of them but they look good in the photos which, of course, can be deceiving.

Adam, if yours works out to be a good bet, I would see if you can order one without all the inlays (or are they really onlays).

[mandroid]

as much inlay I think you got a (?) vietnamese makers product (name forgotten) what strings are on there ?

it may not be the strongest build , though lovely , consider Irish Zouk strings ,

lighter and an octave down from Mandolin GDAE, tuning,

rather than a Cello CGDA all in bass clef .. the high A is below middle C

[Ron Cox]

I bought an F style from the same seller, and the inlay was fantastic. Some things on his build could have been a bit better, but I wasn't complaining. The price was good and the sound was decent though it needed a few things done.

The tailpiece on mine was pretty but stamped and kind of soft. If I had known of the cast tailpieces I might have made the investment. I ditched the stock strings and opted for a brand I knew. The bridge was another story. Your's seems to be making good contact and has room for adjustment up or down. Mine was way high (even adjusted down all the way), and didn't make good contact with the top and I played it that way for a few years not knowing the difference until I read up on it on the Cafe. A bit of sanding and really opened up the sound.

Inlay is heavy, and mine weighed a bunch (top heavy). I never had any seams separate though as I have heard some say around here. I would have swapped out the bridge (CA seems to be the ticket) and eventually the tuners. But, alas, my local gave me more for it than I had invested (seems inlay is rather expensive here in the states). I miss mine a bit, and Tony Tsai hasn't made any more like mine since. If he ever makes an F4, I'd probably be all over it.

Good luck with your instrument. I'd love to hear how it sounds once you get it tweaked to your liking. I'm sure it will serve you quite well.

[Bernie Daniel]

I agree with others leave the bridge for now --it looks pretty decent to me and clearly the saddle looks to be bone and it is radiused so if you go a new one you'd have to get it properly shaped. The fret board must be radiused I guess?

If we are to help you much it would be best if you supply some data:

What is the scale length?
What is the width at the nut?
Check the action at the 12 fret on both the C and A courses.
Check the relief putting a a capo on fret #1 then holding down fret #15 and see clearance under fret #7.

In general the set up looks decent. I wonder if there is proper compensation on the saddle though. How is the intonation?

[Adam Sweet]

Adam, if yours works out to be a good bet, I would see if you can order one without all the inlays (or are they really onlays).

They are thin pieces of abalone shell glued on with shellac and buffed. Nice looking, but hardly practical.

[Adam Sweet]

Good luck with your instrument. I'd love to hear how it sounds once you get it tweaked to your liking. I'm sure it will serve you quite well.

Thanks, I've been playing it solid for a couple of days...it sounds great and I'm continually surprised at how easy it is to play. I have an Octave mandolin that is much harder to play than this.

[Adam Sweet]

What is the scale length?
nut to end is 17.5"

What is the width at the nut?
1.5"

Check the action at the 12 fret on both the C and A courses.
a little soft

Check the relief putting a a capo on fret #1 then holding down fret #15 and see clearance under fret #7.
Very close. I could raise the bridge slightly.

[Jim Garber]

What is the scale length?
nut to end is 17.5"

Is that nut to bridge? 17.5" is very short for a mandocello, more like a mandola or octave. Gibson mandocelli are usually 24" and some modern makers put the scale to more like 25".

Then again, are you talking about nut to end of the fretboard? Better to measure nut to 12th fret and double for the true scale length.

[Martin Jonas]

What is the scale length?
nut to end is 17.5"

17.5"? Are you sure? Mandocellos are usually 24" scale. My Suzuki is 22.6" and is the shortest-scale mandocello that I've come across. What distance are you measuring? Scale is the distance from nut to bridge. You can also measure from nut to the 12th fret and double that.

I think Bernie's question regarding the action at the 12th fret referred to the distance between fret and underside of the strings, not to the effort required to press the strings down.

Listening to the clip you have posted in the photos forum (Link), there is some serious buzzing and distortion -- is that all down to the recording equipment, or does it sound like that in the flesh? If it does, you need quite a bit of setup.

Martin

[allenhopkins]

Pics of Adam playing it here. Definitely a mandocello.

[Jim Garber]

Martin and I are echoing each other. I think Adam is measuring it wrong.

[Adam Sweet]

Martin and I are echoing each other. I think Adam is measuring it wrong.

I measured the length of the fingerboard.

[Adam Sweet]

there is some serious buzzing and distortion -- is that all down to the recording equipment, or does it sound like that in the flesh?

Crappy webcam mic, but the C strings are definitely too low. I need to adjust the bridge for sure

[Jim Garber]

I measured the length of the fingerboard.

So what is the true scale length? Measure nut to 12th fret and double it.

[Mandobar]

is that an Antonio Tsai?

[Bernie Daniel]

Crappy webcam mic, but the C strings are definitely too low. I need to adjust the bridge for sure

Adam if you are using a Logitech web cam get into the settings and uncheck the "right sound" box -- then the mic will stop trying normalize the sound of your instrument.

[Jim Garber]

is that an Antonio Tsai?

No, another Taiwan/Vietnam seller. You can see another similar one here.

[Jim Garber]

BTW assuming that one above is the same specs as Adam's, here is what they say:

Dimensions:
Total length: 37.80"= 960mm
Width : 14.09"=358mm
Thickness : 3.13"=79.49mm
Nut width: 1.58"=40.04mm
Scale length: 22.83"=580mm
Fret amount : 23

So the scale length is a a little more than an inch shorter than std Gibson scale.

Actually, it is interesting that the bowlback MC they make has a 24" scale.

[Bernie Daniel]

No, another Taiwan/Vietnam seller. You can see another similar one here.

Some who speaks Vietnamese please tell that fine fellow that there is no such thing as an F-5 mandocello! He has built a very fancy looking K-5!!

Kinda blingy for my taste but that price for solid wood (F-style yet!)mandocellos is almost unbeatable I guess?

At that initial cost there is plenty of room to do a lot of "set up" on it that's for sure.

[Jim Garber]

Kinda blingy for my taste but that price for solid wood (F-style yet!)mandocellos is almost unbeatable I guess?

I agree 100%. I think if Adam is ordering a few he should ask for a quantity price, sans bling. Frankly I would ask if they can make a K-1 for even less.